Anita Siek

Wordfetti

Anita Siek is a lawyer turned brand strategist and copywriter, and founder of Wordfetti, a human-centred brand DNA and word education house dedicated to teaching brands that don’t do normal, how to stand out through the Wordfetti 7-step Framework that blends consumer psychology, human-centred design, and words. 

Whether it be our copywriting templates, signature program Wordfetti Your Words, or our courses, things are done a bit differently at Wordfetti. Copywriting ain’t just about putting nice words and sentences together. It’s not just about grammar, or spelling, or writing for SEO. All of that is important. But copywriting to Wordfetti, is really so much more.

It’s about really getting under the skin of your brand and your business and pooling together your purpose, your brand image (are you fun? serious? credible?), your vision, and your spirit into a story. A story that resonates. A story that is engaging. And a story that is powerful. Because after all, we are creatures of emotion, and we cannot deny that this is how we are all inherently wired.

Outside of Wordfetti, Anita is also a speaker, consultant and the host of Brandfetti, the podcast. A no-fluff fun-sized marketing podcast dedicated to sharing wisdom nuggets on copywriting, content marketing, verbal branding, the science of words, as well as stories of brands who are creating a dent in their industry one word at a time.

BY Podcast Covers Issue 2_Clare

Anita’s Podcast: Find your inner fetti

  • The nitty gritty reasons behind her journey from lawyer to copywriter
  • The effects of workplace bullying and our lessons learnt
  • The psychology behind words and branding
  • How to take steps out from under the corporate shadow

Transcript

Rowena
Now that we’ve sort of nailed the fact that we’ve probably both come up against very similar walls when it comes to breaking through about corporate paths in a way. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about the real story about how you came to break free, I suppose. Or maybe it wasn’t even that way around.

Anita
Hmm, so we want the real story.

Rowena
The nitty gritty, come on, get down and dirty.

Anita
The nitty gritty. Okay, so I guess I’ll start off from almost like the beginning as to what a little bit of context, right, paint the picture of what led me to be in the role that I was in. So to go back a little bit, I studied law and psychology. I come from an Asian background, So my parents were pretty much like, do you want to be a lawyer? Or do you want to be a doctor, and Anita doesn’t want to be a doctor because I am terrified of blood. So lawyer it was. And the hardest, like the dream, like the vision was always to be that barrister, a lawyer like you can wear that wig and you’re just like walking into wherever it was, and you look so important. And you were there. And anyway, that was the dream I had that. In my in my vision. One of the hardest roles to get was in government. Like to get a role in government, a permanent role in government was like, Whoa, like, out of like 200 applicants like they, they chose you what. So I was that one person out of the 200, 300 people who applied for with this admin role, when I was still in my degree likes, I was still in law and psychology. And then as I graduated, they just kept moving me up. And I was just absorbing like a human sponge. I actually didn’t want to be a lawyer. I figured I didn’t want to be a lawyer. But I was like, okay, so I just did like five and a half, six years, it was like six years in, in uni very expensive pieces of paper. And after a bit of so for me as well, I hit a roadblock in during the middle of that, where I lost my dad quite suddenly, which, for me was a massive wake up call, which is when I decided I actually didn’t want to be a lawyer like life is too short to do something that Yeah, life is just too short. So I for me, I was just absorbing like a human sponge in this admin role. And I was moving up moving up as you do you climb the corporate ladder, and you climb up. And for me, I’m getting to the story. For me, I moved up quite quickly. If I was to, I guess, say like, within three years, I only lasted three years in government and in corporate. Within three years, I went from almost like a level two to a level six. And in government, you technically also have to apply for these roles and not get, you know, tapped on the shoulder. You shouldn’t really get tapped on the shoulder. And I think at the highest level, it was eight for you to director, and I was this 25 year old who just came on and was like, I love everything. I’m so enthusiastic. I love all the things. Let’s get it done.

And I moved very quickly and I think I’m so humbled that I got given these opportunities, I loved what I like, honestly love what I did. And it was just frickin loved it. But I think I can also see on for the team that I was in, there was definitely a 1% 2% that was just like, Whoa, who is this person? And why like is she given the opportunities, and that’s when it spiraled for me. So I actually got a promotion three months before I left, quit my role, and I was so happy. But it was a ripple effect, where there are a lot of people who weren’t happy about the fact that I got that role. And I get it, I get where they’re coming from. But it was nasty. It was so nasty. It got to the stage where people were talking, as soon as I would enter, people would just walk away, I would get excluded from meetings, I would be in meetings, and people would roll their eyes, people would get their phones out. And I’m talking about not just, you know, I’m talking about executives, as well. So I just want to make mention that. I’m not just talking about those who were in my, I guess, the same level hierarchy, whatever you want to call it, these were people who, you know, are I supposed to be my seniors. But in saying that 90% were amazing 90% of the extraordinary humans that I got to work with, I still connect with to this day, and they’re great, great mentors, but it was the almost like the little little percentage there that really destroyed it for me. And I guess, going back to telling this, like, that was what drew me to leave. Not so much that oh, I need a you know, prep X amount of money. Of course, I like you know, saved money to be able to do something like this for a rainy day. But I did not plan for this. It honestly got to the stage where I was just so down, so depressed, and questioning myself. I was like, What have I done? Like what? Like, I haven’t taken anyone’s job or role like everyone’s still in the same role. And I had never felt so sad and depressed then I did at that moment. And I had no other choice than to literally do it for my mental health, to literally leave and take a break. So I took a break first. I didn’t tell my mom, I actually didn’t tell my mom that I quit my job until a year later. Which is another story. I love her. And I did not mean to lie. But the thing is, I also know because she loves me so much that she would have been very worried about me, which you know, I would have been worried about me. But it’s uh, so yeah, I took break, took unpaid leave, I also had a little bit of leave left for around six, seven months. And then I just put my notice in. So I had to be really careful at the beginning to I guess to figure out whether or not I was going to go back whether or not I was going to continue on. But that is the nitty gritty story as to why I decided to leave not because, you know, yes, the business was picking up. But I also really enjoyed the work I was doing in corporate it was just the environment I was in absolutely freakin sucked. And it’s taken me a while to share that. Because I think for so long. I have really protected that. And I don’t know why I don’t know why.

Rowena
Because it’s almost like you feel like you should be embarrassed like I arrived feeling for myself as well. Like it was almost like it almost felt like you’d failed even though you hadn’t. And then it was a whole bunch of these things get piled on top of and like you said, you’re worried about what your mum would think and things like that. And you really need that time to be able to reflect and actually figure out No, actually what was going on? And how does it reflect for me now, because it’s so painful in the moment. I’ve been in bullying situations and workplaces. And it’s like, well, you have to be there because it pays the bills. And it’s like you feel so trapped. You feel like there’s there’s a whole psychological thing going on in your head, that until you’ve actually dealt with the trauma of the situation. It keeps popping up when you’re in business yourself if you don’t actually find a way to deal with it.

Anita
Right? Oh my gosh, you’ve hit the nail on the head. And I think it’s literally at that very moment. It’s almost like I’m hearing things from other people being like, Oh, you’ve just got to build more resilience. You’ve just got to this is what you’ve got to do. Like, you know, you can’t last this you’re not gonna last anywhere else. And I’m like, Where the heck did that come from? Like, you have to build resilience because this is wrong. Like there is no like, it’s not even about resilience. There’s a line here and the the trigger point for me was I was actually there was a particular incident which I feel so much more comfortable sharing now, but it took me three years to arrive here is there was a particular incident where there was one particular person that was Yep, very angry about this about me. And we were about to go through mediation to resolve it. She was in the same team as me. And we were literally about to go into mediation and I was like, hang on a second, why are we going to mediation when this is downright wrong behaviour? Like I’m being told, I have to make sure this doesn’t happen again. And I’m like, what, like, I haven’t done anything. Like, someone is unhappy about me getting a role, like you’re so right in saying, I look back now, though, like are and I look at, and I’m like, I’m so glad, it happens, like, so glad I’m so grateful that that happened. And I’m almost appreciative of every single person. And every single situation, the good, bad and ugly that had happened, because I would not have been able to take the leap that I have. Now, if it wasn’t for that incident.

Rowena
And I feel like if I hadn’t gone through that stuff, myself, like, with people I had, as I mentioned earlier, I had a lot of people that chucked me under the bus and I did I have those questions that you can’t help but going through your mind, like, what did I do wrong, and all of these types of things. And when you actually start to have that space, you can take that step back, and you can look back at it, and you can actually see it for what it was a lot more. And I completely agree with you. I’m glad I went through those experiences, because now I can look at them and go, Well, I’ll never put myself or anyone else in that position ever. That is like a hard line for me because I know how damaging it can be and how much, you know, they can talk about mediation, and they can talk about like, you know, all the lawyer terms of like, you know, payouts and all that sort of stuff. But it doesn’t actually fix anything.

Anita
No, yeah. 100%, it doesn’t. It’s just like a band aid. It’s just like, this is what we’re supposed to do. Because this is what HR told us. So we can take it off and say that we tried.

Rowena
What happened when you decided that you weren’t going to do what? what was expected of you anymore? What was that that moment? You know, you’re taking that time? And yeah, what was going through your head at this point in time? Like, obviously, you’d had the space from the situation? What was going through your head?

Anita
I love this question. Because you know what, there was almost no time I made the decision literally, within 24 hours, because I remember so clearly, I went to my director who has been such a support. He gave me flexible working right. Like he was a great human. But I went to him and I was so upfront. I was like, so am I really doing this mediation, you want me to go do this? Like, this is what you want me to do, This is part of the procedure? Because it’s like, yeah, like, this is what this is all part of it. I’m like, Well, you know what, I don’t want to be part of it. I’m gonna take time off. And there was just a like, I there is a line I know. And I wasn’t sure exactly what I would do. I wasn’t sure whether or not I would be taking Wordfetti full time then. But I just knew no, like, I am not going to be sitting there to being treated like complete BS by this person who downright knows that this behaviour is wrong. No, I’m not going to do that. Like so. Yeah. So for me, it happened so quickly. And I was just like, I can’t anymore. And within 24 hours, literally 48 hours I handed in my leave. It was leave first. But inherently I think I knew I’m not going to come back from this because I’m like, if I’m heading away from this, I’m going to give this Wordfetti thing that I created on the side, a good hard crack. I’m going to give it my all and see how I go. And what’s the worst thing that could happen. I can figure it out then. And I’m so glad that that happened. And I think when I decided to start telling everyone people were shocked, but I think people were also like, what, like you would leave like this permanent paying role for something that is completely unstable. And what do you do again? You write things for people? Yes, yes. Yes, I’m writing things to people, and I get paid for it. Correct.

Rowena
I feel it so much. And it’s a really I often talk about this now I’m sure I’ve talked about it through some of the other podcasts as well. One of the things that I noticed a lot was that when you’re in corporate and when you leave your degree no matter what career path you’ve decided. It’s almost predestined when you go the corporate route. And there’s literally there’s only ever one sort of trajectory that’s ever seen for what’s expected. You know, and I really hated the fact that my career path was based on someone else liking me. I’m a pretty likeable person, but at the same time, it’s like hated kissing ass. It felt so fake. It’s so out of my character, like, give me genuine connection gives me like, no small talk, give me the big gritty things to talk about. Yep, sure, let’s go that path. But like, Yes, sir. No, sir three bags full, sir, it definitely wasn’t for me. And I just wish that I’d known that there was another direction that it was actually possible.

Anita
And, and that’s the thing I think. And seeing I mentioned before, my husband just recently left his corporate job, literally a month ago. And this was more so he had a series of promotions, but still didn’t feel that excitement anymore. Like it was almost like, there’s nothing you can pay me to stay there is something more that I want to achieve. And I think but still like even then like there is it’s it’s human anatomy, one to one where we shield ourselves, we protect ourselves from things that are scary and risky. So when we leave something that is stable for something that is completely unstable, our body’s gonna go Whoa, are you sure? Are you sure you want to do that? Like, what about the bills? What about the mortgage? What about the kids? What about the dog’s life? What about that? Like, have you not thought about that? Like so then there is no like cycle that’s just like, are you sure you want to do that. But we all know that growth happens when there is discomfort and never really was there a time when something really bad happened, whether or not is was a breakup, whether or not it’s a bad business decision, whether or not it is being treated like complete BS in your corporate role, where you didn’t learn or grow from it. It is always in moments when it is just disastrous, or bad or terrible. Like, where you really learn where you really grow as a person where you really start to see and are able to embrace the way you are and how you think. So yeah, like when we look at it like that, like, I would almost now look at it and be like, Oh, that’s uncomfy good.

Rowena
Yeah, good. 1000 percent agree, fear has kind of become like a signpost for me now that if something feels scary or uncomfortable, I’ve been through enough of the roller coaster ups and downs to know that hey, okay, so this is uncomfortable, or this is bad, or this is this? Okay, so there’s an up after this, it’s fine. There’s an up coming, you know, you know that. And I feel like that’s such an entrepreneurial mindset where I feel like you sort of see people that sort of constantly hit on the downward trajectory by focusing on the negative. But I think by stepping back and having that awareness is a big deal, which actually brings me to your next question. So you said you studied law and psychology? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So which one do you think you use more in your day to day these days? And how do you use it?

Anita
Oh, that is a good question. I definitely thought I leaned a lot into the psychology element because in the nature of what we, what I’ve created what I do, in my personal brand, as well, it’s really honed into understanding human behaviour, and psychology, why we do certain things, why we why we buy why we don’t buy, and it’s part of our framework, at Wordfetti, which is part consumer psychology, part design, thinking and human centered design, and words. So I combined these three things to help brands stand out. However, I think in the last year or two, I think, having dove into law and understanding also how the smallest of change in words can result in completely different consequences. And if I was to use terms or conditions and agreements, and you know, all of that, as an example, even legislation and policies, a slight change in words can completely result in a different thing as well. And I think I never I always used to think, Oh, I’m doing something completely different now. But I really think everything that I have done has really led me here. And I’m so fascinated by language, I also speak four or five languages, as well. So it’s almost like, I have been fascinated. So I speak in English, but sometimes I think and count in Chinese, like I think in so many different ways, languages, and I’m fascinated to by how words sound. So if I’m smiling, you can totally tell that I’m smiling right now. But if I’m not smiling, you can totally tell when I’m not smiling either. Like so it’s almost like I’m just fascinated by words as a medium. If I tell you Right now I’d like to work with you versus I’d love to work with you. Yeah, it’s one change in Word, choice, but completely different feelings. Right. So that is what fascinates me. But I actually think both law and psychology have been tapped into. Which is so cool. Yeah, so cool.

Rowena
And these days, everyone, the new like, buzzword feels like these days is personal brand. You know, we had pivot we had a whole bunch of other things that were definitely around last year, but personal brand seems to be the thing that’s come out of it. Like, yes, it’s been building up for years and years, it’s been something that people have moved into, but not necessarily sung it from the rooftops so much. But I feel like there’s such a big part of personal brand, which actually plays into those. If we were going into another corporate job, transferable skills, you know, like our life experiences and who we are and how we relate to people actually feeds and drives our businesses so much more than the piece of paper.

Anita
Oh, my gosh, yes. And I love that topic, because it’s almost, and I say this, and you would appreciate this true because you’re a freaking visual wizard. So it’s almost like we can mimic colour palettes if we really want to, of course, I’m not telling people to, but I’m saying people can mimic your colour palettes, people can mimic the look of your website, people can mimic your service offerings and look at your product offerings, your pricing your copy, but the one thing that people cannot replicate is you and your story because there’s literally no one can replicate your story yo, like no one. No one!

Rowena
And you made that shift from at least on the ground. You’ve made that shift to being more in a personal brand space then being purely about Wordfetti and your Brandfetti in some other like many feathers in the cap type thing going on?All the Ferris I like that. I think you should do that all the fetti’s. What three things? Would you say that you’re uniquely you that shine true on your business that is about who you are versus who the brand is?

Anita
Wow, that is such a good question. I’ve never been asked that. Yes. Yes. Okay, so what are the three things that really make me different in me, not the brand? Yep. I think the first bit for me is I firmly believe that we are all in a way influencers. We’re all influencers. But because of that, when I say influencers I mean as soon as we start talking showing up even if we don’t have an online presence, what we say what we do have the power to influence someone else, right? Like even if you don’t have a social media presence. So I want you to say that first because I guess I believe that this idea of business ownership entrepreneurship, it is so poker faced if that makes sense like we always just see this highlight reel we don’t realise like people are so scared of sharing too much or saying this not that i overshare because there are definitely things I don’t share on my personal brand account I’m not going to share the thoughts I have for example with you know that the hobby and all like I’m not gonna share that I always go back to what is my audience want to see think feel know and read. I always go back to those these core things What do they want to what do you want to see feel read know and read? And for me, I know my audience are business owners who do probably look at all these influencers around them and this includes business friends or people they look up to and they’re like wow, like she’s had you know a seven or six figure launch or like amazing like wow, like so amazing. And then they start to second guess themselves, they start to overthink and I see this with my clients. I see this with my inner circle. I see this everywhere and we all know that is not the case. We all know that it is never rainbows and unicorns when you are in this business ownership train and Elon musk actually recently shared in a clubhouse room. Like literally if you need some motivational words, to be a business owner Don’t be a business owner because that you shouldn’t be a business owner if you need some motivational words. So I guess one of the biggest things that I’ve really tried to do through me and my voice is to really be real in the sense and people say real and not fancy but I really want to paint the picture of Hey, like it’s okay to have a really crap day it’s okay to second you know, guess I feel it too I am just like you like, even though I’ve been in business for you know, four or five. I am just like you even though you’ve just started, I too second guess, I too, wrote a caption where no one liked a nice second, like, I want you to feel like you’re not overthinking or crazy or like, you know, making a problem out of nowhere, like we are human beings. And we have emotions. And I guess the first thing that I feel like I really tried to do through the content that I create is to really make sure people feel seen and heard, not feel like there is a problem that you’ve got, I’m going to fix it, but just more like, Hey, I see you, I feel you whether or not I can help you or not, I just want you to know that I’m here for it. So that’s, that’s the first part which leads me to the second part, the community is what’s built my business and my brand. I for the last four years, so Wordfetti has been in existence for four years, I’ve always made a promise to myself, I never want the business to get to a stage where I, you know, lose track or can’t, like, can’t maintain that human connection with my audience. And I guess that’s what kind of had me shift from going deep down into the agency route to now being like, Oh, hang on a second, if I go too deep into the agency route, it will just be a job number. I don’t want it to be a job. Now

Rowena
get back to that corporate.

Anita
Okay, yeah, exactly. No, I don’t want that I don’t want that trying to churn out., I get deep with my clients, I get to know when they want to take their calls, because they’re going to take their kids to swim class, like, I know, little things. And I don’t want to get to a stage where I lose track of that. Because that is where the real magic happens, if I’m to really you know, too, like, help them tell their story or, you know, work with them on a one on one basis, or even through my students. So, the second bit too that is the connection element. And I look at that in a lot of different dimensions. So I’ve voice note, a lot of my community, not just my clients. So when I see someone who is has connected or has been part of our journey for the last two, three years, and I see them comment, I feel like already, like I’m able to just voice note them and be like, hey, Jess, like just checking on. And thank you so much for taking the time to, you know, read my latest posts, like how you going how’s things, connection, like I am all for that deeper connection beyond the comments beyond the double-tap. I do it through voice notes. I do it through with phone calls, I do a Virtual Copies, I do it through snail mail, I love snail mail. And I do this not just with existing clients. And I think that’s an important thing for me. Because for me, it’s not just about conversions, because not every single person is ready to commit and buy. It’s one thing we don’t realise, we think all because that person didn’t say yes to my proposal, whatever like, but that’s not the case, they’re just not ready just now like who knows, they might actually have a friend that they could connect you to, or maybe one day, they will be ready in a year’s time when they’re able to get some capital as an example. And I can tell you right now, and I like in the last three, four years, the amount of clients who have said no to me originally who have ended up being some way or another bought a digital product, invest in a program with us. It literally feels like family without it sounding cliche. Like, I’m here for you. Not just because you’re a client, like I’m here for you because of our mutual love for just creating something freakin amazing with our lives. And that’s okay, whether or not you want to work with me or work with someone else, whatever, we’re all in this together. So this is a happy place of the internet. And that is where the feeling I want them to have a really blabbering but

Rowena
carry on. It’s amazing. And the fact that you’ve got to the point I had someone recently go my first point, my be point in my my day point, and I was like, hang on a second. We missed a few numbers letters in between, but I get the drift.

Anita
But yeah, I guess yeah, that that’s my second point, I guess the levels of connection. For me. It’s not just online. It’s offline. And the third point I feel like is how I measure success. And that has changed. That’s

Rowena
That’s a huge I yeah, that’s a huge part. I mean, and it comes back to those preconceived notions that are like, right, you know, what your career paths gonna look like and what success looks like to other people and stuff like that. I’m not kidding you last year. Success for me was hiring a cleaner.

Anita
Bam, Love it. Love it. Exactly. But that’s the thing. Like we have this idea that success means you got to keep going up, up, up, up, up, you got to keep doubling the revenue. You got to keep tripling you got to go upwards. But who freakin made that up? Like we define our own success and for me, like, I won’t lie like that. I used to define success like that. I used to be the person that was like, Okay, okay, so we made That Okay, so let’s double that. And I was like that, but then I hit it. And I’m like, well hang on a second. What? Like, okay, like, I started to just not feel like well, that is not it because I’m not because

Rowena
you weren’t being able to do number two, you weren’t being able to do the connection. Therefore, this means much as

Anita
100%. And I’ll tell you what, how I measure my success. Now. It’s not even about the it’s not about numbers. It’s not about the 7 8 9 figures, whatever No, like, it is the tiniest of things like the DMS, the messages, the emails, like even listening to the podcast, which is free content, my podcast is free content, yo, like, free. Especially those that listen to my podcast, and they’re like, Oh, my gosh, Anita, I have been listening to your podcast for the last six months, one year, I’ve been consuming it. And I feel like a completely different person, or I quit my job, I had someone who DM me a massive email and was just like, Anita, I quit my job. And I felt so scared by I just listened to that podcast where you shared about blah. And I cannot tell you, like I get so excited to saying it. Now, the moments when I get those DMs voice notes, emails, where people are seat like creating that life that they have always wanted. That is how I imagined success because it goes back to the root of how this all started. Life is so short, we have one, literally a tiny line, no one can see this because I am on a podcast. I am hold on making like a finger signal where we literally have this tiny, tiny line. And we anything can like can happen during that time. And we have to make the most out of it through our work through our life. And we are not our business. So please remember that too. Like you are also you know you maybe you’re a mother, maybe you’re a husband, maybe your sister or your wife, whatever, like you are not your business as well. Yeah, there’s nothing worse.

Rowena
Defining your own success has just been such a huge thing for me.

Anita
Oh tell me about yours. Like what how do you define success, then,

Rowena
I was stuck in comparison space like because I’ve been compared to other people my whole career and felt like I was being held up and found lacking my whole career. All I ever wanted was a pat on the head and to someone say I believe in you. This is amazing. You’ve done well. Pat, Pat gold-star on your way. And I look back now and I now realise I’m that for myself. And I’ve surrounded myself by people, like for instance, even just chatting to you by you going on? It’s a really interesting question. Nobody’s asked me that question for like, do the little like polish on my shirt and get a little bit of a swagger on. And you know, those for me are actually bigger successes now then like, the bank balance or the like, worldwide recognition or like having, you know, getting a promotion. None of that stuff actually has any tangible effect on who I am and how I’m going to live my life. You know, every one of those positive little building bricks feels like it’s building back the shape of what I should have been if I hadn’t had some of those negative experiences. And I embrace that stuff. Like I was chatting to Kate Toon the other day. And she’s like, this has been the best podcast ever. I got to compare myself to a hamster. And I’m like, awesome. Done. You know what I’ve got some I was I had all these other serious questions, but we’ve totally gone deep and we’ve done this with deeper. Got some fun, okay, okay, okay. Okay, What are your three favourite words?

Anita
Oh, whoa, wow. Okay,

Rowena
Do you want to hear some of mine? Schmooze is one of my favourite words. I just think it is like so much fun to say. And just, I don’t know why, like, it feels like it’s Onomatopoeia, but at the same time, like it just like, I know schmooze.

Anita
I love that

Rowena
And I love the word giggle giggle Yes. giggles are great.

Anita
Yes. And that’s you know what it’s um, the that sounds symbolism to like so I’m getting really geeky now but there are certain words in the language that get you just feeling like like giggle snuggle and this there’s certain words such as get you feel in like cozy certain words that get you feeling like there’s actually study with this. I won’t go too deep here about it. But you know even the word like boba or bubble. It sounds like cute like Okay, all right. So my favourite word, I would probably say there were two that came front of mind for me. One is actually not so much an English word. It’s actually a word that I was kind of I heard my parents and grandparents say, as I was growing up, and it’s actually I actually think it’s a dialect in Chinese, but it’s, um, Sinai. It’s like Sinai, Sinai. it sounds very weird. I actually don’t know what it means, but I had to share it because I grew up listening to my grandparents parents say it and what it ultimately means it’s almost just like, it’s almost like, like snuggle in a certain way. So for example, my mom will say so nice. hello to my dogs. So and then my dogs will literally like put their like whole like body like up like a cockroach and be like, yes. Give me some love. So it’s almost like this word. That means give me some love. Or like, yeah, I’m really sookie. Like, give me some pats. So give me some like, you know good words, please like. So that was the one word that I love. Mainly because I do see a bit of nostalgia as soon as I think about it. Ah, another word that is I guess I’ll choose one that’s in English. I have to be really biased. I really love the idea of just fetti. But like, but fetti in a lot of different realms, which is why I’ve called my business Wordfetti. So I’ve kind of used the end of that, like, it just sounds so happy. Yeah, and vibrant. And like a party. So now I’ve named everything literally I’m trying to own really this idea of just Brandfetti you know, Wordfetti, the fetti family like this idea of fetti just sounds so fun. And I want to be part of more fun. So yeah, those were the two that really stuck out.

Rowena
To me. I have a thing for puns. A good pun, like so my business name. Actually, both of them are a bit of a play on words. I love a good pun, the cheesier and dad jokey, the better. Like it’s so good. So mine is Preddy Creative. And I always say that I’m pretty damn creative. And you see, that’s what I mean like, it’s cheesy get to goofy. And I have. I’ve got obviously Brand You magazine which we’re talking about now, which is the idea of being brand new, being you, and then branding, you stop,

Anita
You should be a copywriter.

Rowena
Nah, we actually a friend, a friend of mine, we would love the idea of actually just like sitting in a room and like coming up with ridiculously awesome names for people’s businesses.

Anita
Oh, stop. my gosh, you know what you should do people actually pay people to come up with really cool hashtags for weddings, you know, when you get married and you’re trying to find like really good puns for your two last names together. Ah, that is Yep. Genius. frickin love it.

Rowena
Yeah, we could have had the pretty damn awesome wedding. if we had more than our kids there. On the flip side of these positive words, if we’re going to take it down the entrepreneur route, there’s a lot of like phrases that people kick around. And we’ve already sort of gone down the hole. Like, I know, for a fact if I see a clubhouse room where it’s like, you know, five, six figure entrepreneurs room and stuff like that I’m gonna see like, skip

Anita
No thanks.

Rowena
I just know that that’s not fair because it just it brings up so much internal cringe and I feel like by knowing my my parameters of, you know, what I stand for, and stuff like, sure if I wake up and there’s a million dollars in my bank account, yay wicked, but I don’t like that level of schmooze that comes with it. Although I do love the word schmooze, but you know. So, I know I’ve got a few words like my, my word is hustle. I hate that whole hustle mentality and mindset that grind that don’t get me wrong. It’s hard and stuff like that. But why else would we be doing this? We didn’t want to actually have fun doing it.

Anita
I hear you, I don’t love. I’m very anti hustle. But I have to be honest as well and say for the first year or two of my business. I was a hustler. Okay, I hustled bad. I worked 15 hour days, I hustled I burned out, yeah, a few times. And it was not pretty. And I think one of the things that I see so much of my students, my community, my clients say is I don’t have enough time. Like I feel like I’m so overwhelmed. I have so many things I have to do. And if you’re feeling like That right now I want to say two things. One, take stock of this relationship you have with your time, like, what are you saying with your time? Like, are you saying I’m so overwhelmed? I have no nothing like I have so many things I have to do. I’m juggling all the things already, like this negative energy that you’re attaching to this idea, this word of time, you’re already setting yourself up to fail. Like who said, you don’t have enough time? Like, what if you started to say things like, you know, what I have all the time I have in the world, like, How awesome is it that I get to choose my own schedule and that like, imagine if we just change that. And I guess the second bit of that, I would probably say, is we are the, like, we are the cause of time. But we are also the source of time, if we use to look at it that way. Okay, so we can freakin drain our energy in doing all the things and we can cause it, we can cause the time to go away. But we can also be the source of it if we want to, which is now I so I actually put my holidays in first now. I make sure I’ve got my days for myself in and then I wrap everything else around it. So I hear you, I’m so anti hustle as well.

Rowena
burnout is so harsh man, I had a couple of rounds of burnout. And it’s, I have to admit, I almost feel like everyone needs to go through it once. Because I feel like it’s one of those things that now I know the signs of it. yeah, I know the signs of it in my body. I know the signs of it in my patterns, I know the signs of it and how you know, I will be feel like I’m working every minute. And yes, I might be in a really like, I’ll be happy to burn out because I’m actually probably doing the things that I’m happy doing. But that crash and burn. It is debilitating.

Anita
It is Yeah. And I love how you mentioned to there that you recognise what happens in your body. Because there is science, so much science to actually show that it shows up in our body first and then we start to interpret it. And then by then it’s sometimes it’s just too late. So it’s almost like once and it’s different for everyone, where when we know we’re on that verge like sometimes it might be a headache. Sometimes it might be sore shoulders, it might be just, I don’t know, it’s different for everyone. Maybe it’s flush, like, you know, in your face, like I don’t know, it’s different for everyone. But if we were able to be more aware of these things, like we can really be like, Oh, hang on a second, I’m starting to feel, you know, really trying them out home I’m feeling like really hot in my head. And this is usually what happens when I have too much on my plate. So listen to that body. Like it’s giving you whispers Don’t wait until it screams.

Rowena
The funny thing is is my other anti word I used to be was balance, like I thought balance was total bullshit, right? Because like it implied that you can get this thing and maintain it. Right? So exactly what you’ve just said I was very for flipping that word to awareness. And actually like changing the voicing, like, more like going okay, cool, I have to put more focus into this area right now, it means that some of the other things might have to give away, but that’s okay, because I’m recognising there needs to be this give and take. And I’ve just moved into a new business course was Suz from our last last issue. And I’m sitting here in the mindset module and every mindset module in every single course that I do, I’m like, Ive so got this, I’m gonna fly through. You know, like I’m so together, it’s all good. It’s all good. I’m sitting there, and I’m going I’m good. I’m good. And then I realised what was stopping me what was holding me back, what was stopping me from finding the time was that I’d finally finally found that elusive word balance. And I was scared to lose it. Okay, so this is different.

Anita
Wow.

Rowena
So I got to the point where I was like, okay, the kids are good, you know, we’ve got we’ve got some sort of like, you know, stuffs going on and we’ve got a lot of solutions and stuff that were going on with them and you know, relationship with hubby is, good enough, found a bit of balance going on with my friends and stuff like that and works great I’m sorted for the year. So I should just sit here and just keep doing what I’m doing. And I’m so not that person. Like there’s a part of me that’s going

Anita
it’s like wait, yeah, yeah, like what what are you doing? Like why you rest who rests?

Rowena
Weak? Yeah.

Anita
Gosh,

Rowena
this has been such an amazing chat. I’ve really enjoyed this like, especially when you get stuck at home with my barking dog for company half the time. It’s really great to have a chat with someone that feels the same way about so many topics. Now, I know that we’ve talked about a lot of nitty gritty in this topic. So if there was a final takeaway, if someone’s Feeling like you are in a similar situation when you were in corporate? What would you say to them? What? What are some of the ways that they can start to see a path out the other side? Hmm,

Anita
I love that. I think the first thing is to really, this is something I really also wish I would really would have loved to have done. And I think the first things first is, for one moment, pause and really consider you and be selfish and be an end you as a person. So it’s almost like, what do you want out of this life? In terms of work? How do you see work? What do you see is fulfilling work? And what do you see as a fulfilling life? And I know that is really deep, but take stock and almost reset and be like, what is important to me in my work in my life? And can I honestly see myself being an achieving that in this space that I am in, like, in this corporate environment that I’m in? And for some, it may be like, yep, I totally can like this is exactly like where I want to be, I can see like, life you work view wise, like this is, this is where like, I really do want to be and that’s okay, like that, that is amazing. If we you can really be aware of that. But make sure that this is a decision you’ve made, not a decision that you’re doing. Because XYZ you’re trying to meet the mortgage payments or, like, make sure this is for you is the first thing, make sure whatever you’re saying in corporate, if you only make sure you’re making the decision for you, is the first thing. And then I think the second thing is if you do decide to leave the corporate role, know that it is going to be freakin scary and it is going to make you feel sick, and you’re going to have a million different opinions. If you go to your friends, if you go to your family, whatever they want to protect you, everyone, including your buddy, you, your own body wants to protect you, it’s going to feel as though you’re gonna be like, No, thank you. But you know what, at the end of the day, the most magical thing is you get the choice to, you know, you get the choice. This is your remote control, that is called life, you get to choose whether or not you want to choose that chapter or choose that and there is no one destined route, if you studied law doesn’t mean you have to be a lawyer. If you study psychology doesn’t mean you have to be a psychologist, if you studied XYZ doesn’t mean you have to be that. And that is the magical thing. The fact that we get to choose like I own always envision this Alice in Wonderland route, you get to choose where you want to go. There is no one way you can still choose, I can still change my path to and that’s the magical thing. No one said just because and I’m like, you know, just just because I’m in the space of copywriting doesn’t mean I have to stay here forever. Like, and I’m just saying that as an example. There’s so many different routes. So yeah, to sum up, I will probably say first make sure that this decision how you’re feeling, take take stock of that, and it’s okay how you’re feeling really ask the why of those emotions as well. But make sure the decision that you’re making is for you, you’ve got to be selfish for that one moment. Because it will always be a win win for everyone else. Because when you’re doing it for you, it’s a ripple effect into everything else and how you show up. And the second thing is really yeah, being really like just awareness of the fact that it’s going to feel very uncomfortable, but and it’s less about what you achieve to so what you achieve and what you do, but more about who you become during this journey. I feel like being a business owner is the fast lane to personal growth. Like I don’t think I have

Rowena
Hallujah Yeah, yeah, like waving my arms like in the choir.

But it’s true. Like I don’t think I have I would have done so much in a work like what the heck is journaling? Like I journal now? Like what? Like I have never like gotten to know me and who I am and I now show up so much better to to everyone else around me. Because I know so much more about who I am what I stand for what’s important to me, what’s not all of that and it’s such an exciting journey terrifying scary. I cry. Yes, I feel I have bad days as well. It doesn’t stop, but I would not give it up. It is extraordinary. Like Yeah, freakin extraordinary.

 

 

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