Transcript

 

Rowena Preddy

What does ‘leader by design’ mean to you? 

Colleen Callander

Great question. Well, I don’t believe anyone is born a leader. We’re certainly born with skills and talents that we develop as we go through life. But what I believe is that we all have the ability to become leaders. By design, you can become the leader you always wanted to be, you can become the leader you wanted to have, and you can become a leader that people choose to follow. And from a very young age Rowena, I was always very intrigued by people’s behaviour, both good and bad. And so on. My leadership journey. I was always listening and learning and taking mental notes and was really curious. I suppose about how people behaved. And I always wondered why some people treat people with respect and others step over people for self gain? And why did some people create these environments of fear and others environments of collaboration? And why were some people kind and others cruel? And some you know are greedy and some generous. So for me I decided very early on in my career. That I wanted to become a leader by design. I wanted to design the leader that I wanted to be for the future. 

That you sound like exactly the person I wish I’d had in some of my early career roles, and I feel like it’s one of those things where a natural progression happens in some people’s careers, where you go from worker to supervisor to manager and. 

Colleen Callander

There’s not necessarily enough of a recognition about the skill set that’s involved with regards to, and it’s not just like a a go and do a course and put some ticks in those boxes. It’s a lifetime dedication to bettering yourself so that you can support people better as well, so you’ve had some amazing roles across your career, and what I would really like to know is why do you believe in leadership? Is so important in a business space and a life space. Why wise leadership something to aspire to. 

 I’m super passionate about leadership and that’s not only my leadership, but certainly the leadership of those around me. Whether I’m in a CEO role, whether I’m now in my own business. I’m very, very passionate, particularly about women in leadership. And, you know, I’ve always said I want to be the change that I want to see, and we really need to change the leadership rules. We really need to change the number, the balance of leadership, you know. I say Rowena, I don’t think we’ve got great leadership in this country. And I also say that we don’t have enough females. We don’t have enough women in this country leading, and that’s really a big part of the problem. You know, I talk about when I was in my CEO role, I was part of the 20% club, less than 20% of women in Australia at the time. I was a CEO and this hasn’t improved. By the way, in the last couple of years I held a CEO role. So I want to be the change that I want to see. I want to empower and inspire women to step up and start to lead with confidence and share their voice. And as I said, be the game changers, be the change that they want to see. That is the only way we will start to make a difference in the world we live in, in the leadership world we live in, if we start to demonstrate what that change looks like. 

Rowena Preddy

It’s so very true I I worked in an advertising firm in my early career and I can quite honestly say that. Advertising hasn’t come far from the Mad Men styles that we see on TV. It really hasn’t. And it was. It was quite shocking when I watched that 10 years after I’d been in the advertising agency and actually realised how many of those stereotypes are still in effect today. And as I went through my career, I saw it more and more. Ideally to you, what of those stereotypes should we be really consciously cultivating change within? And what does that new era of leadership hopefully look like? 

Colleen Callander

Yeah, well, that new era of leadership is one I’ve been living in for a very long time. I very much encourage people to move into that new era of leadership. And, you know, I talk about that new era of leadership being led by kindness, and kindness isn’t the first word that comes to mind when we think about great leadership, right? And I really challenge that thought because I believe that leading with kindness is what will separate the good leaders from the great leaders of the future. And in fact, I talk about. Kindness as the new superpower for leaders and a new form of currency, one that we can trade for loyalty and commitment and trust and high performance. And you know there is and I’m sure you’ve heard it as well. There is this big misconception around kindness that being a kind leader makes you a weak leader and I believe the opposite is actually true. I believe being a kind leader is the superpower and kind leaders are very capable of making good, strong, even tough decisions with kindness. 

 Kindness is actually one of my values, and it has been for a very long time, and it’s definitely the way I’ve lived my life and the way I lived my CEO life. And for me, Rowena  it makes happier, more motivated, more collaborative and much more productive teams when you create that leadership of kindness. And I always like to clarify when I talk about kindness, because kindness doesn’t mean that people can fly under the radar. Kindness doesn’t mean there are no accountabilities or we accept. Under performance or there are no rules or boundaries, it’s not a free for all or a charity, right. Kindness means actually the opposite to all of that. Kindness means we set clear expectations for people and we hold people accountable. We have open, honest discussion. We encourage growth and high performance, and we push people beyond their comfort zone. We raise the bar, that’s what great leaders do with people who can go much further than they think they can go. Often they just need the environment to be able to do that, and the one that I found. Working best for that is creating an environment of kindness and I think it is the greatest gift you can give another human being. It costs us nothing, right? There are not too many things in life that are for free. Kindness is one of those and we really need to shine the spotlight on leading with kindness in all areas of our lives, not just in our leadership world.

Rowena Preddy

It’s a very valid point as well. I remember when I went into business for myself after years of thinking that this is just how it’s supposed to be. This is, you know, the path that corporate takes you on and you just have to suck it up. And I remember when I looked back and thought about what I wanted, when I suddenly realised that I was actually in control of what my career could look like from this point by really focusing on the people that inspired me, the people that I felt like I was thriving. as my best self, the people that really challenged me? Those were the ones that I had a true connection with. And when I say connection, I don’t mean that we were buddies and going out to the pub every night, but I felt seen and I feel like a woman in a corporate space. We’ve been so invisible for so long and I can really see this huge shift starting to happen. That woman is standing up a lot more and. Not so much demanding to be seen, but actually placing themselves where they can be seen. They’re making the conscious choice. What shifts have you seen when women are empowered in a leadership role? 

Colleen Callander

It’s a great question. And to your point, there is enough room in this world for every woman, right? And it really is about us supporting each other, lifting each other up, building each other’s confidence, sharing the same dreams, believing we can break through glass ceilings. You know, when women are empowered in leadership roles, can I tell you amazing things happen. They really, really do. Women bring a very different style to the leadership table. And, you I believe we need a balance of all things in life. women really bring. As I said, this kindness and compassion and empathy and transparency and trust and collaboration. And we need much more of that in our leadership world. So you know, we very much need to be creating pathways for women in leadership. You know, women find it very hard to go from that managerial role into that leadership role. So we need to be creating those pathways. We need to be coaching and learning and challenging and helping each other move along that leadership journey. It’s really, really important. You and we also need to be great role models for the next generation of leaders.

Rowena Preddy

A big part of when you were a leader, especially like at Sports Girl. And I know at Sussan as well. You very much focused on cultivating a culture in workplaces that allows people no matter where they are on that chain if you know whether they’re a worker in the shop floor, or whether the OR two IC. You very consciously cultivate environments where people can shine and thrive as their best selves. How do you do that? What are some of your top tips for how people can do that? 

Colleen Callander

It takes a lot of work, right? Culture is not easy, but it is worth it. It is worth putting in the work. You know when people feel valued and trusted and empowered and listened to, and when we have these open, honest conversations, that’s when great culture starts, you know? That’s when great culture really manifests in an organisation. And as you said, it doesn’t matter where you are on your journey. You can be starting out in your career. You can be a CEO. Great culture starts with us. It starts with us again being the change we want to see, being the role models to create that great culture. once had a leader from another organisation. Say to me, Cole, you know, can you share your tips on culture? Can you give me half an hour? You know, you’ve got this culture stuff down Pat. I’d love to pick your brain. And I laugh because I was more than happy to sit down and have a conversation about culture and what I’ve done and I can’t solve your culture. Problems in half an hour? I wish I could. You know, there is no magic recipe. There is nothing I can change in your world in 30 minutes because culture has to be taught. It has to be learned. It has to be nurtured. And it’s not something you can buy off a shelf or, a couple of affirmations around the office or, you know, you know, some lunches or free parking or a pass to the gym. You know, all those things are great if you can have those in your organisation, but they’re more like perks, right? Then that’s not culture. The culture is something you have to get up and commit to every single day in your organisation. It’s about encouraging relationship building. It’s about encouraging collaboration. It’s about living and breathing your core values. That’s a really big one, and it’s about creating an environment that builds confidence. I really believe all roads lead to confidence, so if we can do that in ourselves and in each other, that’s really where we start to see the magic and the dividends of that culture through, your productivity and empowerment really shine through. 

Rowena Preddy

And I firmly believe in what you said. Culture is grounded in values and beliefs. Until you’re really crystal clear on what those are and those can develop and build over time. As you said, this is a personal growth journey as much as a professional journey as we move through this business world. And life in general, our values and beliefs are gonna shift. But when you’re in business, you need to know what those are. Because if you don’t know what they are. How can you figure out how to build a culture that supports them? 

Colleen Callander

Absolutely, you know our values are the way we make decisions, right? So if we don’t know our values, how do we make the right decisions for ourselves? How do we make decisions in line with those values? Which are the things that are most important in the way we live and work? So really important that we not only know our values for ourselves, but we are very clear in our organisation because it sets the tone for how people behave, how people react, how they have. Conversation how they treat each other, how they expect to be treated. So you know it. It’s really important that you are probably surprised or maybe not. There are a lot of organisations that do not know their values and that is really highly concerning to me because it really is the way we make every single decision in an organisation. Or should 

Rowena Preddy

What feels like a lot of us know or have personally experienced what it can feel like to be under a bad leader or in a place without culture and values. What are some of those top impacts that a good leader can have on an organisation? 

Colleen Callander

Well, I think great leadership is probably the most competitive advantage any organisation can have. And it’s not just the person right at the top, it’s the people through your leadership levels as well. And you know Rowena yourself, we live in this profit driven world, right? It’s sales, its margins, it’s returns, its market share. It’s all of those things. But you know, one thing I would say and the way I’ve lived my leadership life is that people are the most important, important part of an organisation. And probably the one that gets overlooked. As you know, I’ve always had the emphasis on people with purpose and passion equals profit. I turn things upside down. It might be the way my weird brain works sometimes. But you know, there’s this whole thing about profit, profit, profit. You know people with purpose and passion are what drives profit and people are your most competitive advantage. So I really encourage people and leaders to focus on that. Focus on creating environments that allow their people. Shine that allows them to feel like they’re connected and allows them to feel bigger than the seat they sit in. I would always say that I want people to come to my organisation and feel bigger than just the seat they sit in. I want them to feel like they can have an impact on the greater business now. I want them to feel like they’re decisions matter, that they’re passion powers and that their ideas are going to be heard. You know, that builds trust, that drives engagement, that builds morale, you know, and most importantly, it retains incredible talent when you create those sorts of environments. So I really encourage leaders to think about the power of their people because that can have a very serious and real impact on your business success and including your bottom line. 

Rowena Preddy

Now a lot of our listeners are at Brand You magazines and podcasts are one woman bands, myself included. Why should we/they build their leadership skills and what sorts of impacts can that have as our businesses grow. 

Colleen Callander

Well, I’m going to say to every one of your listeners listening right now, you go, you go women, you go get them, you’ve got this. OK, so I take my hat off to all of those women out there doing that because, you know, that’s not easy either, but I would actually step back from that and say, Rowena, that we really need to start with building confidence first. You know, all roads lead to confidence. We can lead in our own lives. We can lead other people better. We can lead organisations when we have the confidence in our own ability. So I would always start by talking to leaders about where their confidence is. How do you build confidence, particularly women? You know, we all suffer from self sabotage. 

 Your inner critic, imposter syndrome. Some suffer a lot, some suffer a little so I would say let’s start with building that confidence first. You know, because when we build confidence we can put our hand up and challenge the status quo. We can put our hand up and ask for that promotion. We can put our hand up and say we’re not happy with that. Pay rise we can put our hand up and say we’re not happy with that toxic relationship, whatever it might be in any part of your life. So leading and great leadership starts with confidence and it starts with leading ourselves first. 

Rowena Preddy

Yeah, One of the things that always blows me away from working for myself that I never thought was going to happen was the level of required personal growth. To see change. 

Colleen Callander

Yes, Leading yourself is the biggest thing with leadership. And I think that’s where so many 

Leaders go wrong because so many leaders think leadership is about leading other people. 70% of leadership is the way we lead ourselves, the structures, the boundaries and the way we look at negativity with a positive mindset. You know, the way we challenge the status quo, the way we ask for change, that starts with us. So we need to be leading in our own lives. When I talk about leadership, it’s not just business, it’s about leading in our own lives. That’s where the leadership journey really should start. 

Rowena Preddy

So What are some of the small conscious steps that people can start taking in their day-to-day life to actually challenge those things? 

Colleen Callander

There are so many things. There’s about 12 in my book in the power of confidence on how we can build real confidence. I would say the biggest one is to start to change our story. You know we all have this inner critic and women have it much more than men. So we really have to change our story and you know, we really have to build in a much more empowering story, one that allows us to take action. So when that inner critic turns up, we need to ask ourselves, is that inner critic really true? With what it’s saying to us, which is really what we’re saying. Ourselves I’m not good enough, I’m too fat. I’m too thin, I’m too small I’m not loud enough 

 I’m never gonna get it done by someone better than me. I’m not worthy. We need to change the story. When we change our story we change our lives. It is so really important we know when that inner critic turns up and we start to challenge that because it is not true. The story we’re telling ourselves that’s the big one. There’s so many others you know the way we treat ourselves the way we talk to ourselves would you say that to your best friend? No, you wouldn’t tell your best friend those sorts of things. So why do we tell ourselves those things? So we need to start with having positive talk to ourselves. You know, I say to women I work to start everyday with something positive. I am fabulous. I am a great mum, I am a great leader, I am kind, I am struggling today, whatever it might be, but really start by changing the way you speak to yourself. It’s a really big one. Celebrating our wins is another fantastic way to build confidence and achievement. Monkey my, one of my values is achievements, so I have to be ticking the boxes all the time. 

 So before I’ve ticked the box, I’m onto the next thing. But, you know, those sort of people need to remember to stop and celebrate the moment because that builds confidence, self-care builds confidence. You know, there’s no point us, you know, working ourselves to the ground, which a lot of women do. You had a workaholic badge that I love to own. 

 I don’t. I don’t like to own it anymore, So we really, really need to build self-care into our lives. So. Confidence is a muscle. We can build that muscle. It’s like any other muscle we have, but we have to nurture it. We have to care for it. We have to understand it, we have to love it so you really appreciate yourself, embrace your strengths and weaknesses. So there are so many things we can do to build confidence and it’s really important that we are doing that for ourselves. 

Rowena Preddy

Honestly, that flipping the script thing has changed the way I remember how I felt about myself before I went into business for myself and I look back there and that person’s a stranger and it didn’t happen to pull on a Pantene ad. It didn’t happen overnight, but it did happen just catching yourself in those negative thoughts, a few times? Day and going. Actually, hang on a minute. That’s one of those things that I’ve highlighted by saying that it’s feeding into all these other toxic spirals. By just putting a stop on it and it’s simple as just taking a moment. And moving along. Absolutely. In business it can be setting those boundaries for yourself instead of going. All my clients are terrible. It just feels like a grind at the moment. Figure out how to put some of those boundaries in place. Figure to be very conscious about it. OK, that annoyed me. I didn’t like that. How can I put a stop to it? 

Colleen Callander

Absolutely agree. Boundaries are a huge one, and most people don’t have enough boundaries in their lives, so it’s another big game changer. 

Rowena Preddy

I’m addicted to boundaries. After I went through my first burnout. Boundaries are my best friend. I’m always looking for a way to put another one in place, because every single time you add one, it actually gives you more freedom, not less. 

Colleen Callander

Absolutely. 

Rowena Preddy

Yeah, now a Brand You magazine. Central premise is the importance of being true to yourself and business now. We’ve talked a lot about personal growth. What are some of the ways that being true to yourself has really given you success or helped you along your path to success in your career? 

Colleen Callander

I love your philosophy as well and I love what it all stands for. I think it’s just fabulous what you’re doing and your podcasts. I love it. As you know, I’ve been part of it, so I think it’s fabulous. I would say it’s your foundation. You know your foundations are key. It doesn’t matter where you are on life, journey, leadership, journey, any part of your journey. Those foundations are the most important thing. You know those values that we spoke about earlier. living in line with those. You know, he’s living in line with your purpose, really understanding what your purpose is, what gets you up in the morning, what puts a fire in your belly? Why are you here? What’s the message you wanna share with the world? When we know those things, that’s when we start living a life of fulfilment in all areas of our lives and really knowing ourselves. You often know Rowena, the hats we wear, the roles we play, the jobs we do. we’re busy, busy doing those things. But what we really need to do, great leadership is about really understanding self. And who are we at the core? Once we pull away all of those titles and hats and jobs, who are we? Who authentically are we? What makes us tick? So I think those foundations, and, you talk about them in my book, is like building a house. You know, if we don’t build proper foundations for our house and that house isn’t going to be standing for too long, and it is, there are going to be pretty nasty cracks that are going to appear, right. So we are exactly the same as human beings if we don’t build solid foundations for ourselves as humans. and be human beings before we’re human doings, then those cracks are going to appear and and we are not gonna weather the storms that come our way. So it is really important that self-awareness is also a big part of it. I think about all of the great leaders and entrepreneurs and successful people that I’ve met in my life, the number one thing I would say they have in common is self-awareness. Now when we know who we are, that’s when we’re truly ready to lead other people. 

Rowena Preddy

One I love challenging people to really celebrate their weirderies in their brand as well. So having have a sense of self but also have a sense of fun, have a sense of play, have a sense of dorkiness, you know, whatever it is that you bring to the table that has you making your best friend or has you Saying the one line is at a party, or find ways to bring those into your daily. Remove some of the stress and the barriers and really just let your freak flag fly. Whatever it is, have a bit of fun with it. It’s life. It’s meant to be fun as well. 

Colleen Callander

I couldn’t agree more. We just, you know, cannot take it too seriously, right? I think that’s probably one of the big things that COVID has taught us over the last few years, is that? Let’s not take life too seriously. You there are so many things to be grateful for and let’s embrace and enjoy those, including all of our. Like you said, our weirdness. And now our freaky ways we do things. And all of the things that really embrace who we are. and become comfortable with ourselves with what you warts and all 

Rowena Preddy

I love to find out what. What one of your favourite catch phrases is in business or in life? 

Colleen Callander

Well, I came up with my definition of leadership a very long time ago, because when you Google the word leadership and I did this again a long time ago. There are as many definitions of leadership as there are leaders, right? You Google leadership and there are just hundreds of definitions. None of them are really like. So I came up with my definition of leadership, which is one life impacting another in a positive way. That’s what leadership is to me, that’s it. That’s where it starts. That’s where it ends. So for me, every day that I got up as a CEO and now in my post CEO World, my job is to inspire and influence and impact people around me in a positive way. So that’s really my catch phrase. And the way I try to live my life. As I said, all parts of my life in my home with my children, in my workplace, in different networks, in my charity space, no matter where it is, it’s really about impacting other people’s lives in a positive way.