Rachael Johns

Author

Rachael Johns is an English teacher by trade,  24/7 mum, Diet Coke addict, cat lover and chronic arachnophobe. She rarely sleeps and never irons. She is also the bestselling, ABIA-winning author of The Patterson Girls and a number of other romance and women’s fiction books, including her recent bestseller, Something to Talk About. Rachael is currently Australia’s leading writer of contemporary relationship stories around women’s issues, a genre she has coined ‘life-lit’.

Rachael has finaled in a number of competitions, including the Australian Romance Readers Awards. Jilted (her first rural romance) won Favourite Australian Contemporary Romance in 2012, and The Patterson Girls won the 2016 Romance Writers of Australia RUBY Award and also the 2015 Australian Book Industry Award for General Fiction. She continually places in Booktopia’s Top 50 Aussie Authors poll.

Rachael lives in the Swan Valley with her hyperactive husband, three mostly-gorgeous heroes-in-training, two ravenous cats, a cantankerous bird and a very badly-behaved dog.

BY Podcast Covers Issue 2_Clare

Rachael’s Podcast: Life Lit Queen

  • What it takes to be a writer
  • Tips to write your own book
  • How to deal with comparison
  • Her advice on changing career direction

Transcript

Rowena
So Rachel, tell us a little bit about your original traditional career path that you chose to go down before you ended up doing what you do now?

Rachael
Yes, well, it’s kind of a bit of a convoluted story. Because I always wanted to be a primary school teacher from when I was quite young. I think after having like a year two teacher and so, I was really keen on that and very obsessed with it. I mean, I’m, you know, every sort of teenager and child goes through different I wanted to be a journalist, I want to be a vet you know, those usual things, but I always came back to primary school teaching. And I was going to do it, I enrolled to do primary school teaching. But then actually, it was the summer holidays between finishing school and 12, that I decided I want to be a writer, of course, I wasn’t a big reader back, then I won’t go into the long, boring story of how it all happened. So I decided then to change to a writing degree, which was a terrible thing to do. But that’s a whole other story. And so after finishing my writing degree, four years, and then sort of thinking, Okay, what job can I do, because, you know, you can’t just write a book and necessarily guarantee you’re gonna get published. And I was still very, very young. And there was so many things wrong with my books. As I said, that’s a little that’s a long, it’s a long story, what happened, but so I knew, then, you know, as well as having this dream that I had always of wanting to be a writer, or not always. But with that time, I needed a career that was kind of going to be not, I suppose sensible, but also something that I could rely on the mind the probably the biggest thing was that we wanted to buy a house over my husband, and we wanted to buy a house and I needed a job. So I decided, you know what, I’m going to go back and do a dip here, because that’s a sensible thing to do. Even though I did, I did want to be a teacher earlier on, you know, and I’m passionate about that. But my first love was writing at this stage. But yeah, that was not something you can just immediately necessarily have success in. Because I didn’t want to be a journalist or anything, I wanted to write books. So you know, it wasn’t a case of just getting a job in this industry or trying to get a job. So then I became a high school English teacher, I didn’t actually do it for very long. Because I always when, during that time, I still wanted to write, so I stupidly decided to have a baby quite young, because I thought if I had a baby, I could quit my job, at least for a reasonable amount of time. I know so stupid. And I thought, you know, it’ll sleep all day. And then I’ll be able to write my best selling novel, and then get that published. And then I won’t have to go back to teaching. You know, this sounds like I didn’t like teaching. And that’s not the case. It’s just that wasn’t my number one passion. So I did that. So I worked for six months in teaching, and then had a baby. And it still didn’t, I still tried to pursue my dream and stuff. But, you know, once he got older, and then my other hat kids, I did relate to teaching for a number of years and two towns that we lived in. So Columbia, it’s not exactly that I started in one thing and changed. It’s, I think it’s the fact that with writing as a career of fiction writing, particularly, you know, you there’s no guarantees with a lot of luck. And so I needed something that I could, you know, some people get it right first book, and they get it published, and then they immediately have may have huge success, and they can quit their job. But the majority of fiction writers can’t just quit their day job. You know, it takes a number of years to sort of build up to that. But that would have been the case for me, except I had three young kids so I could kind of when I finally did get published, I could kind of use them as an excuse it and focus on the writing as well. So I did quit teaching. You know, my first put my first book came out. So yeah, it’s not really a very complicated story, but that’s what you wanted to know.

Rowena
So how did your time as a teacher prepare you for being a novelist did it or like was a skill set that came from that?

Rachael
I think there is in a way because you need to plan lesson plans and I hear a lot saying that you know I hear a lot of journalists say it prepared them because of deadlines and the fact you have to plan stories out and things like that and I guess there’s similar things in teaching you know you have you have time constraints and you’ve got to get something done you can’t just faff around and so I think the fact that you need to i’m not a planner in my writing but I try to know a little bit about where i’m going i’m not much of I know other writers who completely plan everything out but I think having that sort of routine and system and i’m an in organised person but for the teacher you have to kind of be organised so I think you know teaching kind of helped me on one level yeah it helped me with routine and organisation and having a little bit of a basic plan that you need to follow but the other thing is you meet a whole load of people you work with different people so many personalities and this is more out when I was really teaching you know different children and you see I imagine how they’re going to grow up and I thought I got some ideas from this is probably I should I won’t say exactly you know I don’t steal exactly people’s lives but you know writers are inspired by everyone they meet and you know there are a few of my books that were inspired by other incidents that happened at school or parents that I talked, and things like that but I think the biggest thing it probably did is give me a bit of an income while I was trying to, so the relief teaching gave me an income while I was trying to pursue my writing dreams and I think it’s very important you know now my writing pays the bills and that can actually add an element of stress so in some ways the day job and the teaching gave me the permission to have fun and do something else without feeling that it had to be the be all and end all if that makes sense

Rowena
Makes total sense and now you have a very particular niche so not only are you what would be categorised as romance novelist is that correct

Rachael
Perhaps so I do two types of genres and one is definitely romance yeah

Rowena
Yeah but you also have a very particular niche in that you do very country based one is this from your experience living in small towns

Rachael
Yes definitely it is it actually so I took a long time to get published, probably 15 years after deciding I wanted to write a book that’s why I did like relief teaching I had kids and I was writing all that time but I was actually trying to write for mills and boon for a number of years after university first I was trying to write university they might they want you to write the booker prize winner or poetry and I wanted to write something like Bridget Jones’ Diary so that’s why I kind of didn’t really fit in that in that mould and that was a bit disillusioning and disheartening for a few years and so it took me a while to find out what I did was passionate about and then I found romance novels because I wasn’t a big romance reader before and I thought oh i’m gonna give this a shot everyone thinks it’s really easy to write a romance novel and i’m here to tell you well maybe it is for some people but it took me a long time to learn my craft so I targeted mills and boon for a number of years but I got very very close but not quite there because they’re very stringent in the type of book that you have to write in terms of sexy characters sweet medical suspense and I was just falling between this sort of sweet and sexy line so I just I couldn’t seem to up you know the sexy line has a lot of really alpha males you know greek billionaires and all this stuff and it was just wasn’t me but my voice was quite young and sassy so the sweet line didn’t kind of work for me either so after a number of rejections I was actually ready to give up writing but I was living in a small town by this stage i’m a converted country girl I call myself because I grew up in the city and moved to a small town about 2000 people and then later another one with 500 people and it was quite a shock it was quite an eye opener I realised that you know there’s a quite a divide in the country that I didn’t sort of see so much in the city between classes and I was there as a supermarket managers wife and so basically no farmer’s wives or farmers wanted to have anything to do with me it seemed quite traditional still and and also clicky in classist so it was a big shock but then over the course of our time there I fell in love with it and I found my place in the town and I realised no there’s a lot to love about small towns there’s good and bad everyone knows everyone that’s sometimes a good thing sometimes a bad thing and so I loved all this and then at the time that I was about to give up writing rural romance which is what I write which is a bit of a tongue twister one of my genres was kind of a big a big thing it was starting to become a thing and my friend who just got published in the genre said why don’t you stop trying to write for Mills & Boon why don’t you write a rural romance and I felt like a bit of a fraud because i’m not a farmer I wasn’t married to a farmer but then I thought you know what i’m gonna focus on what I do love about small towns and that is the community aspect and you know all the dramas and stuff the highs and lows that goes on in the relationship so that’s what I did I thought i’d give it one last ditch attempt and I swear I was gonna give up writing if that didn’t work whether or not I could have done that, I don’t know, because I think writing is a bit like catching a bug, you know, one that’s very hard to get rid of. But I hear that a lot of people are ready to give up. And then they, they, that’s the final, when they finally have some sort of success. So that’s what I did. And I wrote that for a number of years. And really, I do love rural romance. My books are probably more romance than some of the rural romances, and some of them are more focused on, you know, environmental issues and the farming side of things. But they also allow me to write a whole host of different types of characters and secondary characters, which I wasn’t able to do when I was targeting mills and boon which is specifically about two people. But then yeah, I kind of they weren’t my romance novels weren’t my first love. more books that are sort of a little bit. They’re more they’re more about family relationships, sibling rivalry, sisters, you know, the family dramas, friendships between women. And so then I sort of diverted into that genre as well a few years ago. So now I kind of write in two different genres. I write the rural romance and I write I guess what we call more contemporary women’s fiction. I hate that title, women’s fiction in some ways in other ways. Other reasons. I love it. But it doesn’t really tell you much about it. But yeah, so I do write in the two the two strands now.

Rowena
Well, Rachel actually sent me two of her books which I I’m I’m a terrible when it comes to reading. My mum said that I used to just zone out the whole world like reading was my escape. When I was a kid, I loved it. I read like in the entire like, adult teen section, which back when I was younger, wasn’t that great big. So she had me reading Wilbur Smith when I was like 13 and 14. And I’ve learned really fast that if I have to focus on something, I cannot start a new book. Because once I’m in it, you don’t see me I plan my days around it. I everything is about finishing that book. And I’m not kidding you. I smashed your two books out in a week.

Rachael
Oh, wow. That’s awesome. I know what you mean about the being sitting down and not being able to focus on anything else. You know, we constantly get emails from people saying I said up to 3am in the morning, I read your book in a couple of days. And my mum is very much like that she’s got the time now as well that she can just sit down and she’s like, Okay, today, I’m not going to focus on anything else. I’m just going to read and she’ll read a whole book. Sadly, my life is bit crazy busy. And so and I’m a slow reader, which I really hate terrible being an author and a slow reader. But if I have to do a little bit each night, and I do make sure I allocate a bit of reading time each day, I dream of a time when I’m in between books, or it’s holidays, and some then I do just try and you know, read for hours on end. And it’s amazing when you can really immerse yourself in a book.

Rowena
My husband doesn’t understand that I can actually juggle books so I can have two books on the Go at once as well. Yes,

Rachael
Me too. I do that. And a lot of my I run an online book club and a lot of the people I think you either a faithful reader and you’re monogamous to book or you do like diving between a few and I like the audio books too. So you know, I listen to an audio when I’m driving when I’m exercising, and then I will stop that one, or housework to housework is great for exercise, I’m gonna exercise probably as well but to listen to audiobooks. So that’s why I didn’t know I heard a little bit more. So either do I I was about to say not that I do much of it. But um, it does help when I you know, do on some on the weekend sometimes. So that really helps. So that’s one way to get through more books I find Well honestly,

Rowena
I I’m I’m a purist in a lot of ways I still loved I think it’s because I’m on the screen so much. I’m on a screen. on my phone, I’m on my screen for my work that a friend and I she has such an extensive library, even if she’s read the book, and it’s someone else’s, she still is to go by the book. So she knows that she’s got it in her library. And we’re both paper readers like we can’t look at another screen. And when they arrived like your books arrived, and I do the same thing when I get like beautiful new stationery in for a client when fresh business cards that smell to something about that paper and ink smell. I love that crack open of the first book, it’s just nothing quite like it.

Rachael
I completely agree with you. I’m a print reader for the same reason I’m always on the screen all day and you know, so I prefer to read a print book even though I’ve got overflowing all of that and you know, but no space for anymore. I still keep buying.

Rowena
I’m one of those people that when it comes to like I see a builder who builds a house it fascinates me that they can do then every little detail and and the same with novelists and like I said I’m a really big reader because but I’m a really big character reader like I love when people really dig into characters and I feel really intimately attached to them. The majority of people I read now I tend towards the ones that I can dive into a character yeah and establish a relationship with them over time as well. And I really felt you did that amazingly like I’m Big Nora Roberts reader.

Rachael
I love it. Yes.

Rowena
I love her. I’ve read her since she’s amazing. She and my friends hang out with her..

Rachael
Sorry I thought I should just sideline, you there. So I have a couple of Nora stories. One I cannot say on air. But I have met her. She won’t remember who I am. Because I’ve met her at a writing conference. And I’m usually I’m very, I’m one of those people that’s shy, but not shy, if that makes sense. So I’m, I’m shy, in a lot of situations, but sometimes I just go a little crazy. And so she was there. And I, it was a author party, Her publisher party, and everyone had a few drinks and stuff. So I thought stuff this, I’m gonna go and ask for a selfie. So yeah, she’s amazing. She’s the queen of fiction. I mean, to be able to keep writing good books for as long as she does, and as many as she does. So yeah, I’ve heard her speak. And she’s she’s an amazing woman.

Rowena
I feel like I know her through all of her characters that I’ve read. And, I mean it genuinely, like, I’ve read so many of her books. And I felt a really strong correlation between what you do. And what her books are, I loved your characterisation of people. I sort of went oh this feels like I know another Nora Roberts character. So I just wanted to pass that on.

Rachael
Wow. That’s the biggest compliment anyone has ever given me.

Rowena
Take it, own it. I will. Now how many books do you have under your belt?

Rachael
Well, I have. So we were talking print and digital a minute ago. So I did write a number, a couple of books for digital publishers just as early as early years as well. I did also afterwards, a long time, this is why I do everything backwards. I said I’ve targeted mills and boon for many years. And then after about five years of being traditionally published by Harlequin, which now HarperCollins in Australia, I then met a mills & boon editor at a writing conference. And she said, Oh, what have you ever just wondered that writing mills & boon, because she was talking about ways to break out in America. And to get sort of known, because it’s quite hard writing Australian sort of fiction, like mine to sell overseas, you know, if you’ve got a big, grippy hot crime hook, like Jane Harper, then, you know, you can seem to be able to do it. But there’s a lot of people writing general sort of women’s fiction. And so they’ve got their authors in the US, UK. And it’s very hard for, you know, my book. So she said, Would you like to write mills and boon. I said, Actually, I tried that many, many years beforehand. So I’ve written three, I’ve wrote three mills and boon for the Harlequin US office, I think I took on too much. I think that’s a tendency for all of us who either in small business or women are kind of, you know, it’s very hard to say no, and it’s very hard to turn down an opportunity if I t’s something that we do want to do. So sometimes we take too much on our plate. So I took on this contract while I was still trying to write two books a year in Australia. And so I kind of got a bit overwhelmed and stressed I didn’t write any more of them. But I think last count, I had 26 books. Wow. And the majority are print published in Australia, rural romance, or as we say, contemporary women’s fiction.

Rowena
Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. I’m lucky if I have that many on my bookshelf at the moment, cuz like I said, I always steal from my friends library.

Rachael
I’ve got far too many on my bookshelf. Now, what can I just say something about the character characters that you said a minute ago, because I’m very, I feel like, as a writer, there’s sort of two types of writers, there are those that focus more on plot, and there are those that focus more on character, and of course, they’re intertwined. But I’m like you, to me, it’s all about the character and what they the emotional sort of reactions in a situation. And so plotting is, is second sort of, to the character to me, so you have to let the let the characters sort of make the decision. And that’s, that’s when a panther is we call it in the writing business, because it’s the character so direct, direct the plot, so yeah, I definitely prefer character based novels. I mean, I love good plot as well. But I had a quote a few years ago, it was a strong characters can carry a weak plot, but a great plot can’t save, you know, weak characters. And I think that’s really true.

Rowena
Like it’s true in life and in books, let’s be honest. No, let’s see, where am I up team? Sorry. What would you say is your favorite thing about being an author?

Rachael
Oh, there’s a few silly ones is the fact that I get to work from home and that’s a that’s like a blessing and a curse. But it means that I don’t have to put on makeup every day. And I’m terrible at that. But the best thing about being an author is when I talk to a reader who’s read my books, like and use something like you’ve just said about comparing me to Nora Roberts, you know, that’s a real buzz. But we get a lot of emails or Facebook messages from people. It’s very easy sort of when you’re by yourself in your office and, and also when I know other people who seem to be doing so many big important things, you know, I know someone who’s an obstetrician in Niger and, you know, volunteers over there and then other people that do such serious and important job. And I think my husband says I tell lies for a living, you know, it’s just our little joke. He’s a supermarket manager. So I said he stacks little tins, you know? But it’s true. Sometimes you can go well, I just tell stories that just make things up, you know, really, what, what is that doing. And I guess the beginning, like, on one level, it’s giving people enjoyment and you know, relaxation, which is great, and we all need that. But the bigger deeper level is when someone will email you and say, I read one of your books and it really helped me in a certain situation in my life, or it made me feel okay about something that I’ve done, or a situation that I’m in. One amazing story I had recently is I wrote a book called The greatest gift, and it’s about egg donation. And a lady emailed me, I think, June last year or something. And she said, she just read it. And she was, she just turned 40. You know, she didn’t have a life partner, or any kind of prospect. And she was really depressed because she’s always wanted to be a mum. And then she suddenly thought, you know, what, I own my house, I’ve worked hard, I’ve got supportive family, But because she read my book, which was about that. So I’m going to go on my own. And I’m going to find the donor. And so she did. And then in December last year, she emailed me a little announcement that she’d put on Facebook, and she said, plot twist. And it was that she was having a baby on her own. And it’s due you know, this year, and she said, she seriously did that because of reading my book. So you know, that’s one little story. But when you hear things like that, it just, you just go, Okay, this is why this is why you do it, you know, because you don’t know who you’re going to touch and who’s likely going to help by doing, you know, by something that you think is not necessarily that meaningful? Yeah,

Rowena
I feel like graphic design can very much be seen in the same sort of space, like, as a designer, so often, you know, it’s easy for me just go, I just make things look pretty. But when I actually see some of the fundamental differences of, you know, supporting people, and really being strategic about things, the difference it can make, not only in car going past, not only in their businesses, but in their life like that you can miss out

Rachael
And motivate me know, their self esteem and things both in confidence and things like that as well.

Rowena
Yeah. And it really can open up like, isn’t, you know, it’s really hard sometimes to sort of go, No, I wish I could do those big important things, when I want this. And when you’re in small business, you can start to make those choices yourself. So for an example, I always like to send little gifts out as thank you to my contributors. But then I realised, typically, it was champagne. And I went to actually there’s some people that don’t drink. So I’m gonna ask people that, you know, it’s like, yeah, yeah. But then it was also like, someone said to me, You know what, I have lots of champagne in my house. I was like, Oh, can I come to your house? She’s like, Can I get you to donate to a good cause? And I was like, You know what, this ticks so many boxes that I’m still able to say thank you. I still able to donate as well. And it was just, sometimes things come out of the woodwork. You know, we just go I wasn’t looking for this. But this is a really nice way that it feels good for me. It feels good for other people. And I feel like I’m fundamentally making a difference in some way. Yes. Somebody

Rachael
Is like, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes you don’t even know. But no, you don’t have the the number of messages you don’t get. Yeah. And so, yeah, it I think everyone’s we all make this all reason for all of us and what we do, we need to, we need the amazing people who do these amazing things. But we also need the people that are a bit more subtle and do things that you don’t necessarily think are amazing. I mean, I think we also with the COVID situation last year, suddenly we realised who was important, and that, you know, is the teachers, doctors, the supermarket workers and you know, not the people that you necessarily, you know, idolise and look up to

Rowena
You as well. Now, what would you say to people, like, I’m sure you’ve heard people say, I want to write a book one day,

Rachael
Yeah.

Rowena
What would you say to those people? Like, what piece of advice would you give to them?

Rachael
Well, there’s a couple First, I would say, Are you a reader? Because the amount of people that I hear that want to write a book, but don’t read books? And, you know, A) I don’t understand why do you want to write a book if you’re not passionate about books and reading, but maybe they’ve got stories specifically to tell, and if it’s nonfiction, that’s different thing. But you really do need if you want to write fiction, you need to be a reader. So I’d make sure that they’re reading I would ask what they write what they want to write, and see if it’s a type of thing you’re reading, because there’s a lot of advice. It’s, you know, write what you know. And I don’t necessarily think that’s the case. I think you should write what you love, and what you’re passionate about or what you want to know. So I would say make sure whenever you’re writing that you’re definitely you know, into it, and you’re obsessed with it type thing. I’m currently trying to work out what to write next and I’m you know, nothing has spoken to me in that obsessive way yet I feel like you need to kind of be obsessed with a character or a topic or something. The second thing that you read a lot, just do it because so many people say they want to do it but they didn’t have enough time or you know, they don’t know where to start. Well you don’t need it doesn’t need to perfect no you need to write it can take you know a number of times to get your it doesn’t have to be the first time you know what you read in someone’s book has been through a number of drafts and stuff so people often don’t do it because they’re scared of it not being perfect but it doesn’t need to be you just need to get the first bit down so that’s what I would say is write what you know or what you love sorry read a lot and then just start and the biggest thing is yeah if you don’t think you have the time because so many people say that as I said i’ve been doing you know talks and someone will come up to me I really want to write a book but i’ve got three kids and you know we run a business and the time when they talked to me I didn’t mention but I did in the middle there and I was also doing relief teaching my husband owned a small supermarket in the wheatbelt so I had three kids I had a business but I made time with that yes I didn’t iron the housework went by the wayside I didn’t watch much tv but you know the thing is if you want to do it you’ve got to make time for it and you’ve got to be serious about it so yeah so it’s a bit of a mishmash of advice

Rowena
No that is so true i’m just going through a coaching program and new coaching program at the moment with one of our last issues contribute as Suz Chadwick and we’ve really had to dig into a lot of that it’s like if you want this if it’s really important to you what things are holding you back and what can you remove to make time for so I hate cleaning like I swear to god like the amount of time that takes me to clean and the amount of money I could have made in that time okay cleaner she’s amazing I think some weeks I love her more than my husband because seriously

Rachael
Like I totally understand I bought a robo by vacuum I called him craig the second which now has the same as craig and we also have a cleaner that comes in and does the bathrooms i’ve got three kids and a dog so I feel the bridging dog that sheds last so I don’t pay a cleaner to do the whole stuff because it just last five minutes and I feel it does feel such a waste of time cleaning

Rowena
It’s also the one of the things that she pointed out as well was just like being really honest about what things you procrastinate on and where it’s not actually being valuable like mine was silly games on my phone so if I have fun go on it and suddenly 20 minutes has gone well that 20 minutes could have been something I was doing and it was like deciding is that game more important or is the thing that i’m really passionate about important

Rachael
The thing that that’s true and I mean we scroll so much and I waste time scrolling on instagram and stuff but I mean I think one of the things i’ve been thinking about this morning actually is you know we don’t want to be you don’t like feel you have to be productive every five seconds and you have to be you know always dedicated to your craft because I felt guilty about that when I was trying to be published to if I was doing anything else in sort of free time I would think I should be writing I should be writing and so it’s a balance but also I think we sometimes need to instead of do that procrastinating thing to step away and do nothing because I think your best ideas come when you can switch off and I don’t think we switch off enough at the moment and i’m huge guilty hugely guilty of that and i’m just sort of been thinking about that more and more you know that just having some just time where you don’t have to do anything or you can just go for a walk or you know best ideas come when you go for a walk or you’re in the shower or hanging out the washing I think but we’re always you know even if we sit down we just get our phone out we can’t be bored anymore and I think that really has an effect on creativity

Rowena
That’s what they say about kids right let them be bored let them use their imagination

Rachael
Exactly

Rowena
What would you say I know that you said that you weren’t a huge reader but do you have a book that spawned this love of reading for you

Rachael
Yes I was kind of a big reader in primary school and then I kind of fell away in high school which so many people I think do for various reasons one, I was obsessed with boys instead that you know a lot of time two, the the books that make you read in high school are not really you know they’re not accessible to a lot of adults never mind teenagers and I hope it’s changing slightly because as you said before there’s so much more out there now for teenagers to read but the book I think that really sort of sparked my so it was actually an infant in my life that’s like my decision to write and then I found reading at the same kind of time and one of the books that I read in those first few months was Bridget Jones Diary I think you know, it was relatable at that time in life, it was enjoyable, made laugh made me a bit sad in places, you know, It really made me realise I’m a slow learner. So it took me a little while after this. But looking in hindsight, I realised, you know, I don’t have to write serious important fiction or what other people think is serious, important fiction, that’s gonna win the Booker Prize, or Pulitzer, which is what my university people were trying to say was the highbrow literary fiction. You don’t have to write that to make an impact. And that you can write fun, enjoyable stories that you know, like beach reads, we call what you been on holiday, but they can still be about serious and important issues. And that book sounds a bit silly, maybe if you don’t try it. Now, what are the serious important issues, but but you know, it is it’s about identity, and it’s about love. And it’s the big issues in life, really. And it made me realise that Yeah, you can write an enjoyable, fun, lighthearted book, it makes you laugh, that can still make an impact can be important. So yeah, that’s probably it.

Rowena
I feel like that’s something that it’s the same in graphic design. Like, it’s really easy to, if you haven’t found your niche, or you haven’t found the thing, that’s your thing, and felt comfortable stepping up as yourself and owning it. Like I was the kid that loved bright colours, and rainbows and all over the place and stuff like that. And I remember when I went into graphic design, I was like, I was supposed to hide that because, you know, went through a very stark modern sort of stage and the importance. Yeah, and then it was like this botanicals, there was all these styles and stuff like that. And because I didn’t fit into that space,

Rachael
they were trends and stuff.

Rowena
Yeah, there wasn’t space for me. And once I actually started to own who I was, it meant that I didn’t need to compare anymore, I didn’t need to be in that space of worrying what people thought because I was so comfortable with myself that the people that liked me, were my people.

Rachael
And I think that’s a lesson that we all should keep remembering, because it’s so easy in this era of social media, especially I think, to compare yourself with other people, because you can constantly seeing what other people in your field are doing, you know, that they’re writing more or, you know, designing more, getting more contracts or success or whatever. And, you know, I think we need to look back on what we want to do and what we really want out of things and what’s important to us. And also look at how far we’ve come, you know, like all I always like wanted, was to make a teaching wage from my writing. And I do that. Yet. I have to remind myself that sometimes when I’m thinking, Oh, but I’m not, you know, published overseas, I’m not on the New York Times best sellers, no one’s wanting to make my book into a movie. You know, it’s so easy to look at what you don’t have, rather than what you do have. So yeah, it’s good to remind yourself, though, to think sometimes I think,

Rowena
Well, I imagine you probably experienced that sort of a lot as an author, because the realisation is that it’s a career where you’re kind of the product as much as you create a product for sale. Yeah, a lot of what you must do must be around personal brand.

Rachael
And even more so like so the first my first book was published in 2012, I think, or in 2011. And even then, yeah, Facebook was a thing, I don’t think Instagram was,

Rowena
It was coming around to it, I think

Rachael
It was around. But it was, it was very different to how it is now, where authors are supposed to be on social media, you know, doing videos, Friday, not blogs, I think that was blogs was that the only thing that was kind of then you know, taking up your time. But now, and that’s just white writing. Now, you know, you’re supposed to be in front of the screen, you’re supposed to interact with people, and it’s great. I love you know, doing videos, and I love talking to my readers and things like that. But it’s a whole part of being a writer that I never contemplated when I was actually writing, you know, my first book, you know, I might have thought about doing library talks or bookshop events. But I never imagined that I would have to be on social media for much of my day, you know, and, you know, in some ways, you don’t have to do some very successful authors that don’t, but the majority of people, you know, they do have to be on social media and doing these platforms. And it’s time consuming, and it’s exhausting. Even if it is enjoyable, it takes that I remember I went to a conference a few years ago. This is not about social media. But one of the authors who was presenting said because there’s a number of inspiring writers as well as published authors, one of the authors is presenting and I can’t remember who it was said, if you are in a just desk job or in another job all day that requires your mental capacity back. So it’s not something that’s just you, I’m trying to think of without in front in making payments, you know, then you know, you come home then and try it, you know, put everyone do other stuff, do dinner or whatever you have to do. And then to sit down at your computer or notebook and to try and work for two hours creatively. It’s just, you know, kind of, it’s almost impossible because you’ve already used your brain capacity. I think very much it’s similar with social media, you know, that is, that does take a part of what you know, you would usually put it in creative. It’s I think it’s one of those things we’re all sort of struggling with these days, there how much need to work out a system, which is hard for people like me who are not very organised and much more random, and they know I’d rather post when I feel like it, and then check in when I feel like it. But at the same time, you need to protect the stuff that is actually the business. And that is the writing, and that is producing books, it’s easy for the other things to sort of almost take over.

Rowena
And I think when it comes from a place of just showing up as yourself, it can be a really powerful thing, because people connect you to your stories. And when you’re actually selling stories, you can’t have much better than that.

Rachael
Yeah, exactly you want to be I mean, I think that’s the biggest thing about social media, not that I’m any expert, but that you want to be real, as real as you can on there so people. And that’s, I guess, also a bit confronting, because you are opening yourself up to a whole load of people that you know, you only know through the internet, really. So this whole new world really

Rowena
And hey, we would have never met if we hadn’t been in that place anyway, right.

Rachael
That’s why this is such an amazing, you know, there’s so many I’ve met so many great people through either Instagram or Facebook. And there’s so many pros, I think it’s just a matter of, of working out how to manage it, and to make sure it’s not taking away from other important parts of your life.

Rowena
Now is a last question because I realised we could probably sit here and talk on time.

Rachael
Oh, yeah.

Rowena
I’ve done a podcast with one. It’s lots of fun. Oh,

Rachael
Nice time in the morning, maybe?

Rowena
Well, I actually run another podcast is a complete side note that I hear a lot by actually run another podcast with my workwise. Okay, I love

Rachael
That work wise.

Rowena
It’s actually called work wife one time. So we, we all actually met. But we connected through our coaching group. And it just got to the point where we we missed work ones like we missed, like, yeah, that downtime at the end of the week. And so we got to the point that every fortnight we still do it, we meet up Have a drink together between wins and just don’t even as business owners just as people.

Rachael
Yeah. And you’re down and podcast. Yeah,

Rowena
Although we don’t record that on podcast. But we’re actually looking at starting today that

Rachael
We’re looking at.

Rowena
We’re like, we actually have a one. Talk about a bit like our learnings from the week and stuff like so actually do one work wife one time with one.

Rachael
I love it. Do you know what work wives is a great title for a book,

Rowena
you know, might have just given you passion.

Rachael
Oh, what’s the word? I’ll dedicate it to you if that?

Rowena
Love it requires? Yeah, honestly, power over work life, man, there’s so great. So the final piece of advice I would love to get from you. Because I know that we talk a lot of people, you know, change career paths can be a really scary thing. Because you know, you dedicate a lot of your time and money to study in a certain area and I know that yours have blurred ever so slightly. However, what advice would you have for those who are scared to change direction in their careers?

Rachael
It’s that’s a really hard question. Because I think a lot of it is just going out on a limb and hoping for the best and having faith in your, you know, in yourself and confidence, which is that it is gonna work. And then part of it is a practical thing. Like I think you do need to look at your situation, realistically, and go, can I afford to do this. So my actual advice would be if you can do it slowly. And you know, take time, maybe cut down to a couple of days a week in your actual job if you can. And so you’ve still got that sort of safety net of over and over to that you know, your income. That, that you know that if it doesn’t work out, because I think that gives less pressure on the passion. And Elizabeth Gilbert who wrote Big Magic and her other later books that big magic is a great book for anyone to think creativity read that. She does say that, you know, it’s very hard if your passion is required to pay the bills, and I definitely know how that feels. And I’ve had that for the last few years and it does put a certain pressure on your creativity. I would think that I’m gonna get it wrong. So I’m not even going to say the, you know, an author who’s now dead for years woman, she said, you know, you need Virginia Woolf to say I don’t know I might be misquoting him she just said he needed more room of your own but somebody I don’t know if I said you also need like a rich husband or something now then, of course we don’t we’re not we’re not you know, going down that path now. We’re all you know, able to be independent and all that because but enjoying your side it is kind of good if you’re in a stable place isn’t that’s why some people say writing is a privilege job if you can’t afford to give up your, your and I guess a lot of if you can afford to give up and pursue your passion that’s a privilege. So if you can’t do that and I would say it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

 

 

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