Rhodesia Jackson

inclusion revolution

Rhodesia’s unabashedly and unapologetically her which makes her business, Rhodesia J Designs stand out from the crowd. 

She joined her two passions of social justice with branding and marketing to create a unique environment, one that includes people rather than excluding them. She dedicates herself to helping value-driven, awesome businesswomen to make a more significant impact in the world. Because by embracing being their true selves with no apologies, they can fulfil their dreams. 

This year she launched her Inclusion Revolution course for small business owners to challenge their assumptions, promote social change and change the world.

Rhodesia’s Podcast: An inclusion revolution

  • What inclusivity and connection in business means mean to her
  • Reflects on her personal experiences with inclusivity
  • The power she has found in stepping up and speaking out on what she believes in
  • Her hopes for the positives that will come out of the BLM movement

Transcript

Rowena:

Brand You Magazine and Podcast exists to inspire, motivate, and invigorate women to step into their businesses as truly themselves. Full of real-life stories, practical solutions, and inspirational ideas from fellow entrepreneurs. Each issue has a different theme that showcases the many values, beliefs, and morals that women build their businesses around today. So, be your business and brand you.

With everything that has happened this year, 2020 could have easily been a year of disconnect and hatred. Instead, I have seen communities coming together and rediscovering their common humanity through connection and inclusivity. Each woman in this issue was chosen because they embody these beliefs, heart and soul, both personally and professionally. Welcome to issue one of Brand You Magazine and Podcast: The Together Issue.

In this episode, you’ll meet Rhodesia a designer, web developer, and creator of an inclusion revolution course. She’s a fat, Black, queer woman with mental illness. Society or individual people have tried to erase one or all of her identities at some point. She fights back by being unapologetically herself.

So, in five words, what values, beliefs, and traits do you embody within your business?

Rhodesia:

Definitely equality. I’m really big on people treated fairly and everyone getting equal chance and being treated well no matter what. Creativity. That’s kind of obvious as a designer. Creativity, obviously. You-ness if that makes sense. That’s like bringing out that you out of everything. I think that’s such a big problem some people have. Because I feel like some people want to have all the same stories and all the same messaging, but it’s really important to be your true self and that should be enough. You don’t need to add any extras that’s not you. Or not authentic to who you are. That’s three. Colour. Definitely colour. I love bright colours. It’s a little obnoxious. My wallpaper on my computer is a little crazy. It’s like rainbow swirls. Literally. I just love colour.

Rowena:

Your website makes me so happy every time I get on there. I was a rainbow brat and Care Bear girl and everything drew always had a rainbow in it. I jump onto your site and it just makes me so happy.

Rhodesia:

Yes, I love the colours. I know it’s a lot for some people, but I’m not everyone. I just have to realize that.

Rowena:

This is the line that Rhodesia emailed me back when I asked her to tell me a little bit about herself. And I’m not kidding you. I got goosebumps when I read this. It just felt so raw and authentic that I hadn’t even met you at this point and I felt like I knew you. So, you wrote to me, “I’m a fat, Black, and queer woman with mental illness. Society or individual people have tried to erase one or all of my identities at some point. I fight back by being unapologetically me.” Now, to me, that’s a really powerful statement. Especially because I may not connect to all of what you wrote there, but there’s so many parts that I felt like I’ve done the same thing in my own journey. I’ve felt like I had to hide who I was. For you, can you tell us a little bit about a pivotal point that you went, you know what? Stuff this. I’m just going to be me.

Rhodesia:

I think it was probably like… You know Tumblr? The website that was really popular like 10 years ago. I was on there constantly. Seeing fat women who were unapologetic about their bodies and loving themselves and having relationships and falling in love and being successful was such a pivotal moment for me because I think of all the things, my identities, being fat has always been something that was seen as negative by the world. Being able to fight against and saying, no, I’m not going to shrink myself so that I can be small enough for you was not going to happen. I just kind of decided I’m going to be done feeling bad about myself. This is your one life to live. I’m going to live it the way I want to do it and this is what I’m going to do. I used to say I’m going to travel when I’m this, when I’m that. I’m going have a relationship when I’m this. I’m going to feel happy when I do this. But all that is just BS. It’s so frustrating to think that I was waiting to live my life because of that.

Rowena:

I 100% feel you on that. So I actually was at the other end of the spectrum, where I had people… doctors calling me into offices when I was in high school, asking if I had an eating disorder. And my mom was like, “There is no way she does.” But over time… I’m not kidding you… from that, so much of who I was, was tied up into my size that I felt like my worthiness and my value to the world was judged by the number that only I saw on a set of scales. Right now, I’m at the heaviest I’ve ever been, not pregnant, and for once in my life, I don’t give a crap. I love my life. I love my body. And damn it, I’ve got boobs now and I’m going to love those, too. Because it’s such a waste of time not being you.

Rhodesia:

Yes. Waste. Such a waste. It’s such a waste. Wasting your time trying to be someone else and make other people happy when, ultimately, you’re not making yourself happy. It’s a waste.

Rowena:

Being happy is basically what all of this comes down to. That whether you’ve got a career that you love, you’ve got a partner, a family, you’ve got friends, you’ve got a life… It basically comes down to being happy. So, for me, that meant self-acceptance. You’ve already pointed out that point, but it also still can be really hard to have that societal pressure to be a certain way. What’s some of the struggles that you’ve felt… be it in your career or personally… of society trying to push you into a box?

Rhodesia:

Yeah. It’s funny enough. I am a pretty introverted person… which might not come across in everything else, but I’m very introverted. When I used to work in corporate offices, I feel like there was such a push to be so extroverted and it’s very talkative. It just was not who I am. I’m very observant. I like to watch and learn before I start saying stuff. I don’t just talk to talk. Ever. I like to think about things before I talk. I like to make sure I’m not saying the wrong thing, for one, but just make sure I’m thinking about things before. But I feel like, in corporate offices, they want you to be so extroverted and outspoken all the time and that’s just not who I am. And I tried to be it… that, but I just wasn’t… It wasn’t for me. At all.

Rowena:

I feel like so much of working in a corporate office can really do that to you. I was on the other end of the spectrum again, where I have always been quite extroverted. And because I was also quite opinionated and I had a really creative, strategic brain that couldn’t resist adding to conversations, I felt like I was constantly an annoyance. Instead of my me-ness being celebrated, it kind of being looked down on as a weakness rather than a positive.

Rhodesia:

That’s tough. Yeah, I feel like… That’s surprising to me. At least because I’m an introverted person, I feel like would rather have been like that. Because then it would’ve worked out better with my co-workers or my boss. They only wanted me to talk up during meetings and I’m like, I don’t have anything to say. I need to think about this. I feel like it would’ve been beneficial for me to be more outspoken and have my opinions and share them. I feel like, being introverted, people want to expect me to have opinions and when I do, they’re like, oh, she said something! Which is always a surprise.

Rowena:

It’s perspective, really. You get so tied up in your internal world so much sometimes and whether it’s an extroverted person or an introverted person, it’s really easy to get tied up internally with your own layers of preconceived notions. But once you start to take that step back and actually see them as strengths rather than weaknesses, it can be pretty powerful. I think that, as entrepreneurs, that’s something that we have to do a lot more than other people.

Rhodesia:

Yes. Yes, because you are in charge of every single aspect of your business. It’s not like sales department over there takes care of that or marketing over there takes care of this. It’s like you are all of it. You need to fill those roles in all of it.

Rowena:

Now, as you know, this episode is called The Together Episode, with a big focus on connection and inclusivity. You embody this heart and soul. It runs through your copy. It runs through everything you put out into the world. What would you say is the first step in creating a more inclusive business?

Rhodesia:

I think the first step is thinking about what it feels like to be in someone else’s shoes. You could pick anything. A different race, a different body ability, a different physical impairment, or a different income bracket. Anything you can think of. Just try to think about what it might feel like to hear or see certain things that you see in the media or on social or that you read and just try to figure out how would this person if they heard that. I think that’s the first step is to realize… or maybe look for one of the things that you might have that might put you into a marginalized group and use that as a catalyst to understand why it might feel exclusionary to someone else. Because otherwise I think it’s hard to understand if you don’t have experience feeling like that.

Rowena:

I think that’s very true. I’ve always seen myself as very much an inclusive person. I see people. But I’ve realized from a lot of what’s happened that has come about from the Black Lives Matter conversation that even that is a kind of exclusion.

Rhodesia:

Yes.

Rowena:

For a person from my point of view… That I hate the thought that I’m excluding people. I hate the thought that I’m not listening enough or I’m not understanding enough. What piece of advice would you give people? If they want to try and understand more where someone’s coming from, what advice would you give them?

Rhodesia:

I would tell them not to see… Like people are people, but everyone’s different and that’s what’s beautiful about it. The fact that we all are different and we can celebrate each other’s differences, but also know that we’re all still people. I think that’s the most important thing.

Rowena:

Now, when you speak about differences… and that statement that you made to me in the email, it highlighted a lot of differences… What are some of the struggles that you have personally had to educate people about your differences?

Rhodesia:

So I am very straight-passing, I guess you could call it. I pass as a straight person and I am queer. What happens a lot when I start a job, I have to be very explicit… or when I used to work nine to five’s. I had to be explicit that I am gay. I am queer and I have a wife. I say partner, but I have to say wife because people aren’t getting it. They think I’m talking about a business partner, which is also hilarious. Or they think I’m talking about a man that I’ve just been with a long time. But it’s my wife. So I have to say that otherwise people are confused. I think that’s important. I have to educate them. Like, yes, a lesbian or a queer person or a gay person can look any way. There’s not a look to being queer or gay or lesbian, whatever you want to label themselves. There’s not a look to it. It can be anyone and people need to realize that.

Rowena:

And it’s just a part of who you are.

Rhodesia:

Yes.

Rowena:

It doesn’t change the view they need to see you with it. It literally is just… It basically is like telling a little bit more of the story.

Rhodesia:

Yes, exactly. It’s another part of my life that I happen to be queer and that means I have a wife and that’s all it is. It’s not like it defines who I am, but also, it is a part of me.

Rowena:

It comes to down to that. It comes down to even just telling people things or encouraging them to ask questions. For me, I am inherently known… and, funnily enough, now I have a podcast. I’m inherently known for sometimes asking too many questions. Because I am an information whore. I love to find out new things. I thrive on it. I love making those connections with people where I really, truly feel like I’m understanding them more. And why is to you… You’ve had this experience in both the corporate space and you probably had to have a lot of these conversations as your business owner as well. Why is it important to help businesses to start thinking about being more inclusive? What’s the big picture here?

Rhodesia:

For me, the picture is not realizing how big of an influence that businesses have in shaping how society sees certain people in marginalized groups. It’s a huge, huge responsibility that I think people don’t realize. If you put a commercial out, if you put an ad out, if you’re writing language for your mission or your vision and values, all these things have impact on how people might see Black people or veterans or people with mental illness. These all make a big difference. If you think about commercials with people without homes or stuff like that and using words like bum or hobo, those are all just reinforcing stereotypes about these communities and not helping them in any way. Just stigmatizing them further. That responsibility they have, that business owners have, to change a narrative is so powerful.

Rowena:

I think the pivotal word you used there was narrative. That once we start to hear these stories and start to redefine that stigma that we’ve placed on people… Once we start to actually connect with it on a smaller level, it can grow into a bigger level, yeah?

Rhodesia:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Rowena:

Now, there are so many positives to having an inclusive business. What do you believe are the top three reasons why people should be pushing towards this?

Rhodesia:

I think because it’s the right thing to do, but that’s beside the point. Some people need to be motivated by numbers. 64% of millennial buyers will be more likely to buy something after they see a diverse business. They see diversity or inclusivity in an ad. They’ll be 64% more likely to buy. Which I think is… Like, why not would you not do that for your business? And then also just knowing that you can attract people with the same values as you. If you care a lot about Black Lives Matter movement and stuff like that, you should be posting it on your business profiles. Otherwise people aren’t going to know that that’s what you support and you could get clients that are against it and likely saying all lives matter, which is just… ugh. You don’t want that. I don’t want it. I just post whatever I feel on social media so people know exactly what I stand for. Because otherwise you’ll get people who could be the opposite and then you’ll have to turn projects down or have awkward conversations with clients and that’s not a good time for anyone.

Rowena:

That also comes into a big topic around niching. People talk about niching about being this thing where you really dig down into what you’re offering that’s different and that stands out. But I think people a lot of the times forget that this can also align with your values and your belief systems.

Rhodesia:

Yes. Absolutely. I think my niche is more about my values and my beliefs than anything else. I work with women, but it’s a very specific subset of women. Women who are intersectional feminists, who believe that everyone should be equal, who want to stand up for all women in all walks of life and not just white women who are straight or thin or anything else like that. All women. Everyone.

Rowena:

It’s so very true. When I started out my business, I wanted to please everyone, but I realized by doing that, I was… Again, I was having to section myself off into these sections. Once I got to know people and once people got to know me and those walls started to come down, they realized that… It might not be anything as extreme as the colour of my skin or any of those sorts of things, but the realization is that you actually start to make that connection with people. You start to share your stories. And I feel like stories is a big focus here as well. It’s those conversations that people just aren’t having.

Rhodesia:

Yeah. Absolutely. Like my clients sometimes will get on the phone for a consultation and then we’re talking for way too long, which is a good thing to be wrong, I guess, but… especially now that we’re connecting and we’re talking about things that are bothering us in the world or things that we wish could be different or how we’re working on trying to change things. It just is a better vibe between talking about things that are sometimes tough, but we should talk about. Because you don’t know what the other person feels or how they feel. But it’s kind of easy because I know if they want to work with me, they obviously realize what I’m about.

Rowena:

I feel like it’s really important to put that out there, like you said, so that people know and so you do attract the right people and you do have the right stories. Talking about the fact that you’re having these conversations with your clients, do you have a particular story about a client that has done that 180? That has done that… Really started off at ground zero and super charged their businesses through your focus on inclusivity or your focus on telling that story to be really authentic in their businesses?

Rhodesia:

I’m trying to think. Yes, I have one. She’s a homeopathic beauty and skin care line. She creates all these in her house by growing in her farm and then she makes all the oils and tinctures from all the stuff in her farm and then turns it into beauty and skin products, which is, to me… In Boston, so she has a plot somewhere, which is not in her backyard. We have community gardens here, so she has to go to a separate part of town to get to her garden. She grows all these vegetables and plants and makes stuff out of it. Takes them back to her house and makes stuff out of it, which I think is so much work. Trying to realize her values and how they’re such an integral part of her business. I don’t think she realized how big of a deal it was that she is in the middle of a city, lugging carrots to make carrot tinctures into skin care products. To make carrot oil or something.

She’s not realizing how much work and dedication and soul into every single product she makes. She has a very big vision for bringing natural remedies to the Black and Brown community in our city. It’s just such a nice message to put out because I think that’s such a selling point. She wasn’t really realizing that at all. But we ended up working together to get her branding and website done. She was using Etsy before, but now she has her own website, which is nice. It really captures who she is, which is such a bright, bubbly person, but also very green and earthy and… such a comforting presence. Yeah.

Rowena:

I feel like that level of awareness about… So many businesses these days… I’ve got some that I’m working with where… I try to always encourage people that, yes, you’ve stepped into yourself as your business. It’s kind of like a what now? How can you push this out more? I have people that have charities that are very dear to their hearts personally. Figure out a way to stand up for that professionally.

Rhodesia:

Yes.

Rowena:

Or you might have a story that… For instance, I worked for an indigenous organization here in Australia for six years. I’m going to be really honest. I walked in there as a wide-eyed white girl with absolutely no clue. But it was those wide eyes that I actually went out and I learned and I educated myself. I have a few more indigenous clients and it’s because there’s a deeper level of understanding. I start to dig that a little deeper. I understand the no go areas. I understand that side of things. But it’s because I’m passionate about it that I can put that next level up. Do you recommend to your businesses ways that they can start to use their businesses as a voice?

Rhodesia:

Yes. I ask them a lot about… I have one client I just signed on actually. She has a business that helps out with advocating for older adults. So if your parent or your grandparent… You could help them navigate some of the doctor’s appointments. They would help you navigate some of the doctor’s appointments, some of the medical language, to make sure they’re getting the right, proper care for them. Some people, as they age, they don’t have as much people there to advocate for them. To make sure they’re getting proper care, proper medication, understanding what’s going on with their health, and stuff like that. She does all that with older adults. But then she also wants to be able to help the Black community here in our city get better access to healthcare. Because some people won’t make appointments because of insurance issues here. Here, we have insurance issues where it stops you from getting access and she helps navigate that. That’s kind of her foundation side. Philanthropic side.

Rowena:

That word gets me every time. I always have to sound it out in individual syllables. It’s phil, an, thro, pic.

Rhodesia:

Thank you. Philanthropic. Thank you. Every time I say it. Anywho. She has a philanthropic side to her business, where she is able to help people who are younger, who might not have the funds to pay her for her services, but also help them get access to medical services. Make sure that people are taking care of their health and staying on top of it. She’s using the side of her business where she’s helping older adults to pay for this other side.

Rowena:

That to me… Like I’m actually getting goosebumps. That’s the kind of paying it forward that having this level of awareness… of inclusivity and diversity and all of those -ersity words. By having that awareness and actually stopping and thinking about what can I do to make a difference?

Rhodesia:

I think that’s such a huge thing that you can do. I just launched a course and I decided to donate a percentage of all my sales to a foundation that helps Black trans women in the United States. I think that’s such a huge… But then I want to support so much because in the queer, LGBTQ community, trans women have an average lifespan in the US to like 34 years old, which is terrifying. Anything I can do to improve that is amazing. I keep telling everyone that because that statistic is just like… It makes me… It’s heartbreaking to hear that.

Rowena:

All of those people started as a small voice. They just found ways to amplify themselves. And in their heart of hearts, it was because it was central to their belief system. It was central to who they were. In some ways, it was an easy fight and that it was… There’s just no choice. This is my fight.

Rhodesia:

Yes. Exactly. To have that much passion about something is amazing.

Rowena:

Now, you did mention a few people… Like I said, I’ve done some not so casual stalking. You mentioned some people that have really inspired you on your journey. One in particular was mentioned on a post, a gorgeous post, of your wedding. You mentioned a couple of people that have really inspired you and that you wouldn’t be there and be where you are today without them. So could you tell me a little bit about those people?

Rhodesia:

Marsha P Johnson and Storme. They both started the Stonewall Riots by… Throwing that first brick was Marsha and punching a cop was Storme. Just starting that and fighting for what believe in. Being themselves and not letting cops or society erase them. It’s the fact that these Black women decided that enough was enough and they were done. Like the mothers of our gay culture. LGBTQ culture. That enough is enough. We’re not going to be kicked out and beaten. We’re done. It’s kind of how we got our rights in the first place.

Rowena:

Earlier, you mentioned a course that you’ve launched called The Inclusion Revolution. Again, I looked through this page extensively and I got so many goosebumps. It was when I was looking through all your blog posts. And when I say all… You have all. It was so hard to choose which one I wanted to showcase because I read all of them and I consumed all of them and they all, in some way, shape, or form, opened me up a little bit to be more understanding. And that was just your blogs. You’ve now got a whole course. Can you tell us a little bit about your course and how it came to be?

Rhodesia:

I was originally going to do a course about design and somehow I ended up doing it about inclusivity and marketing and branding, which I think ties my two passions together. It makes more sense for me as far as who I am and what I’m about. It lets me talk about both of the things that we’re super passionate about. So my course is essentially going over from, like, implicit bias and figuring out your message and then going into how to make your business more inclusive and diverse. Your content, your copy on your website, your copy on your social media accounts. And then what to do when things usually go south, when you make a mistake, and how to handle that. I think a lot of people don’t handle the mistake part properly and they try to shrug off their responsibility for what. And so not feeling like they even really care. I think I’m excited for being able to teach people who are really excited about this and want to make a difference and be able to change the world in some way.

Rowena:

So for those of us like me that sometimes talk too much and I have a tendency to sometimes put my foot in it and offend people without actually meaning to… and that’s the thing. For me, I always want to be able to understand where I’ve gone wrong so I can learn from it. For people that do put their foot in it, be it they use the wrong terminology or they say something that they didn’t mean to be offensive, what advice would you give to them in that situation? Be it in a workplace or sitting around chatting to friends.

Rhodesia:

If you really didn’t know that you did something wrong, I think asking, what did I say that was inappropriate is helpful so that you understand. And then maybe asking what you should say instead. But I’d probably Google it first because it’s not their responsibility to educate you. It’s not their responsibility. It’s your responsibility to educate yourself. Because otherwise it’s just like this person has to deal with this awkward moment that involved them and someone pulling out their marginalized identity. So finding out yourself, educating yourself, figuring out exactly what’s wrong, making sure you’re thinking about why it’s wrong and understand it before you apologize. Because if you’re going to give a fake, empty apology, just don’t do it. It’s just not worth it. And then apologize. Once you figure out what you did wrong, apologize from like you really want to apologize. And tell them where you messed up and that you’re not going to do it again. And what you will do to improve. It’s easy, but a lot of people who are grown adults do not understand the concept.

Rowena:

Now, something that I’ve personally struggled with… not necessarily understanding, but knowing that the knowledge behind it. And it’s possibly because so much of it has become a second nature in today’s society. And that’s cultural appropriation. I have… Before tribe became a word that was one of the buzz words, I always called my girls my tribe. Because as a white girl from a middle class society in New Zealand, I always craved a cultural connection. Somebody the other day on a social media post… I used the word tribe and someone said, “You might need to watch how you use that word. Especially as it’s a space that you’re wanting to promote that you have this level of acceptance.” That tribe can be taken the wrong way. What would you say to people in that kind of space? I realize we’ve already talked about Google, but what things… Like I’ve noticed that, for instance, when people use braids. Braids has become a big one for a lot of people with regards to cultural appropriation. What would you say to people in that situation?

Rhodesia:

I think it depends, but for me, like what kind of braids? But it’s the idea that, for so long, since colonization, people of colour have been told that whatever they’re doing as part of their culture is wrong. It’s savage. It’s dirty. Et cetera, et cetera. So the idea of someone who is white trying to take… not trying to, but taking that and not thinking about the idea that… the historical background of it. That they were told for so long, generation after generation after generation, you can’t do this. It’s wrong. It’s savage. All of a sudden, people are doing it as a trend. And then… I don’t know if happens there, but renaming things. Like someone called cornrows, a popular way to wear braids… calling them boxer braids or something. And I was like, what? That’s not what they’re called. It’s like renaming them and somehow they’re super fashionable.

Or, like, nails. Long, acrylic nails, for a long time, was called ghetto on Black women, especially in the 90s, and all of a sudden, it’s such a huge part of culture now. Everyone does it. That idea that you can take something… When it’s on a white person, it’s different. But when it’s on a person of colour, it’s wrong, bad, all that stuff. If someone calls you out on that, I think thinking about what that means and what significance it might have for someone’s culture. And then Googling it. I mean, that’s what I usually do if I feel like I said something wrong.

I make mistakes as well. I’m human. Communities I’m not part of, I don’t know everything. It’s a learning process like anyone else. If I realize I did something wrong, then I look it up and I apologize and I realize where I messed up. I run a body positive book club here in Boston and we had a game night. I realized that one of our members uses a wheelchair and the place wasn’t wheelchair accessible. I literally thought I was going to die. I felt so terrible because I was not thinking. You have to be intentional about being inclusive. I was not thinking about making sure this is accessible for everyone. I just was like, oh, this sounds like fun. I made assumptions about not just taking granted of the fact that I could just walk into a building that has stairs. And not thinking about the fact that other people cannot. I think it’s making sure you’re thinking about things like that and thinking about mistakes that you make and trying to think about what it would be like to be anyone in walking in this space.

Rowena:

When I was working in the indigenous space here in Australia, they talk a lot about walking between two worlds. It’s about maintaining culture while also moving into a modern world and having that level of movement. Is that something that you see in America? That people are wanting to have more of that.

Rhodesia:

So, here, we call that code-switching, which is what people do. Not being quote, unquote too Black in corporate office settings as to not make our co-workers uncomfortable, I guess is what you could call it. Or to try to enmesh ourselves into it. Not cause so many problems and not cause so many social… which is sad. Which I got older was not taking… I was not going to do it. I’m not part of that. I don’t care. You can be mad at me. I’m not doing that. I used to straighten my hair to go to job interviews. As I got older, I was like, I’m not freaking doing that. If they don’t hire me with my hair like this, then that’s their problem. That’s not my problem. Which is funny because how much the way that you think changes over the years, which I’m grateful for, but it’s kind of like… Trying to make it so that you can be yourself in any situation is the goal, really. I hope that eventually these things will break down, where people can just be themselves 100% all the time and not have to compartmentalize themselves into this is how I act around white people in my offices and this is how I act around my family and friends and stuff like that.

Rowena:

I feel like… I do exactly the same thing. For years, I’ve been going gray. Since I was 14. It’s a hereditary thing. And I have naturally very dark hair. It got to the point a couple of years ago… I was dying my hair every three weeks to get rid of my roots.

Rhodesia:

Oh wow.

Rowena:

I got to a point where I just went, why? In so many different ways, I am preaching to be yourself. In my business I preach it. And branding is all about it. Just in my personal life even.

Rhodesia:

I think that’s cool.

Rowena:

I’ve embraced more and more about just being myself without apologizing for it. Be that through my anxiety, be that through my emotions, be that through just being me. I wasn’t going to apologize for it anymore, but I was still dying my hair every three weeks. We’ve been talking about race a lot and we haven’t really touched on religion, but I feel like there is so many stereotypes around what’s expected from a woman.

Rhodesia:

Yes, absolutely. Ageism is a huge issue in our culture, western cultures, because youth is so put on a pedestal. People are obsessed. Obsessed. I have to catch myself when I get stuck in that, oh, I’m getting old! Like, no, you’re not old. And who cares if you are? None of this stuff matters at all.

Rowena:

You couldn’t pay me to go back to my 20s. When I look back on my 20s, I realized how sad I was. How trapped I was. How driven I was by what other people thought. I swear to gosh, as soon as I started breaking down some of those things… in just little steps. What kinds of little steps do you feel like people can start to take to step into being more inclusive within themselves?

Rhodesia:

For themselves? I think reading some books is super helpful. That also helped me. Like the beauty myth. Reading about… Especially for women. Reading about what beauty is and how it’s all just something being sold to us. Telling us that we’re not enough. We’re not thin enough. We’re not young enough. We’re not this enough. We’re not that enough. Selling you some kind of potion and a lotion to fix that. These are things that… It’s just all for marketing. It’s all for making money. That’s all it is.

Rowena:

1000%. I work from home. And if I’m honest, I work a lot in my pyjamas. There are days where I don’t brush my hair. There are days where, on the weekends, my kids change into pyjamas at the end of the day-

Rhodesia:

Same.

Rowena:

… because they’ve already been in pyjamas all day. When I do choose to do myself up or go out or do something, I realized I’m doing it more for me than anyone else these days. I feel like asking yourself that question… Who am I doing this for?

Rhodesia:

Is super important. Because if it’s not for you, then you don’t need to do it. If it’s not for you, then why? They’re not paying your bills. They’re not feeding you. They’re not clothing you. They’re not taking care of you. So their opinion does not matter.

Rowena:

And I feel like the thing is actually also giving value to our own opinions. That by learning about these things… The chances are you’re going to go up against people that disagree. Especially in that inclusion space. There’s going to be people that refuse to educate themselves.

Rhodesia:

Unfortunately, yes.

Rowena:

In that situation, especially as someone that actually… I mean, I’m not sure if you ever feel like you have to defend yourself in these situations… What do you say to those people?

Rhodesia:

Recently, the whole… I mean, it happened with George Floyd and the protests and the Breonna protests. Being on social media has been… ugh. People have been coming out the woodwork, just being horrible people. It’s just amazing. And I always say something because I have to. I don’t know. I think it’s up to you. It’s not my responsibility to do it, but I have a need deep in my soul to say something to this person. Because they’re just making me upset and I have to say something. It just kills me. So then I say something and they kind of combat, but then realize… Recently, people have been coming out in droves to support me or even doing it first. So it’s just like going after them. A whole group of people. Like a mob, which is hysterical. But it’s nice to see that most people are on the right side of it. It’s always one person saying something ridiculous and everyone else is like, that’s not okay. Don’t ever… Please leave. And making it not so hard to speak up. Because I don’t always have the privilege as a Black person… as a Black woman to say something to a white person because, in their eyes, I don’t have any knowledge that they want, clearly, because they’re bigots. The fact that someone else white is saying, that’s not okay, is helpful. Using their privilege to say something.

Rowena:

What would you want from people that are in a position of privilege? What’s the one thing you would like to see them do to break down some of those walls?

Rhodesia:

Always say something. If you see something wrong, say something about it. Say this is not okay and it’s not going to be tolerated. Because I think sometimes people think if someone else looks like them, they must feel the same way, but that’s not true. Like, my wife is white and she’s had times when co-workers have said something racist to her. And like, I’m Black. So then she doesn’t trust this person ever again because they’re obviously racist. And she’s like, they have no idea and they make these assumptions that she’s going to be okay with that. Like, no, she’s not okay with that. Make sure they know I’m not okay with that and I’m good. This is not going to be tolerated.

Actually, there was one instance. I was wearing this obnoxiously bright red dress like 10 years ago and someone was like, “Good for you!” I was like, what the fuck is that supposed to mean? I was wearing a red dress. What is that supposed to mean? I didn’t think anything of it, but she must have thought it was some kind of big statement. I’m just living my life. This is who I am every day. But she thought… I don’t know if it was because I was fat, if I was Black… I don’t know what it was. But I was just living my life, wearing a red dress that day, and to her, it seemed like some kind of revolutionary statement. I think that’s not always… or ever needed. Or I could be in the gym and someone’s like, “Good work!” And I’m like, I come here more than you do. That’s fine. I don’t need you to tell me good job. Like, thanks. Way to make it really awkward for me. Love it. It’s stuff like that. You don’t know. There’s no need to ever say that to anyone. You can just say, I like your dress. Period. In the gym, don’t talk to me. It’s stuff like that.

Rowena:

I’m copiously sweating therefore-

Rhodesia:

Yes. I can barely breathe. I have headphones on. Don’t talk to me. Think about, if that was you, would you really want someone to say that to you? No.

Rowena:

No. I’d want someone to go, damn, girl, you look fine, and move it along.

Rhodesia:

Yes. Exactly. Good for you.

Rowena:

I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen it. It was a program on TV and it was a roomful of a mismatched bunch of people. They asked people to stand on this side if they were gay and stand on this side if they’re not. And then they started finding these really weird cross sections between people. They asked more intimate details or they might’ve asked more vague details, like, you don’t like dairy or you’re allergic to something or something like that. It started to show that we actually have more in common than we realize.

Rhodesia:

Yes, absolutely. People make these assumptions like, oh, they’re other. They’re something else. We must have nothing in common. But that’s literally impossible. There has to be something that you have in common.

Rowena:

That’s what they feel these movements are actually doing for people. They’re bonding people together. People that may not have realized that they believe something so strongly. By being presented with the opposite, they’re suddenly gone, you know what? This is actually something I stand for. It’s sad that it takes getting to the points that society does sometimes, but you can sometimes see these moments as being truly pivotal and fundamental change.

Rhodesia:

Absolutely.

Rowena:

For our audience… We’re going to sign off now. If you could give them one piece of advice how they can go out into the world and be more inclusive today, what would that piece of advice be?

Rhodesia:

Treat people how you want to be treated. Don’t be a jerk.

Rowena:

Thanks for joining us today. For more information about our amazing contributors, don’t forget to check out www.brandyoumagazine.com.au. Also, stay up to date on our socials and see all the new bits and pieces that are coming out over the coming months. And, remember, be your business, brand you.

 

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